Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: brewster113 on December 06, 2008, 04:24:12 AM
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Hello all, I found this vase at a local bibles for missions this am and felt it to be quite good piece of glass. It has good weight and a polished pontil. The decoration is wheel engraved all over this piece and the colour is superb. Any help in identifying this would be greatly appreciated. There is no marks or tags to denote china but you just never know. I have been involved with glass for a long time and it feels good.
regards Bruce
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Bruce — I thought it might be Walsh, but, on checking the relevant photograph in Jackson WF Lookalikes and the pattern book entries in Reynolds, I can confirm that I am confident that it's not Walsh. I don't have any other suggestions.
Where are you?
Bernard C. 8)
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I dont know who its by but i believe the technique is Battuto so could be Italian .
I like it .JP
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:spls:
I believe this is contemporary German - found in TKMaxx. Sorry, "foggy" and can't remember the name.
Good quality, nice feel. :thup:
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Thanks Bernard, and I'm from away in Cambridge, Ontario, Canada.
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Thanks Bernard, and I'm from away in Cambridge, Ontario, Canada.
I'm sorry, but are we sure this is not the cheap votive holder used in community halls across the country? :huh: ;D
Carolyn (Calgary, Alberta)
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Sorry Carolyn but this is far from the usual votive holder but is a vase about 8" in dia. and is cut all over in a process called battuto which johnphillip was so good to point out.
regards Bruce
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I've seen them in an unusual greeny-browny shade too. TKMaxx here is TJMaxx, I believe, across the pond.
If you're unaware of this shop, it sells "end-of-line", last season's, goods. Often very good quality stuff, often tat.
I've bought Caithness paperweights and Beranek "Tropical flowers" there. I'm pretty much housebound, don't get there often, but I like to keep an eye out on what they've got glass-wise - it keeps turning up on the secondary market.
Sorry I can't remember the name, but I did particularly note this glass because of the quality.
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Jozefina of Poland might be an option, they have use quite a lot of battuto styles http://www.jozefina.pl/23E.html (http://www.jozefina.pl/23E.html)
and Rosenthal http://www.luxurycrystal.com/rosenthal-crystal-vases-e.motion.htm (http://www.luxurycrystal.com/rosenthal-crystal-vases-e.motion.htm)
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>:D
A few of these Josephina pieces can also be found in TKMaxx.
My brother has a couple of these German ones. I'll ask, if I remember, :spls: when I next speak to him.
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>:D
A few of these Josephina pieces can also be found in TKMaxx.
In Canada, think Winners :-)
Carolyn
P.S. You do realize I was just kidding about the votives, right? ;D
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I've consulted my brother - the name I was thinking of is Ikendorf.
However, he's shown me a picture, and the cutting is slightly different - the "cells" do not all join up in this way and are more regular.
He thinks he's seen several vases there with cutting the same as this one, marked "Made in India" - very attractive pieces, he's sure he's got some in grey somewhere, ::) although he can't be completely sure the bases are finished as well as this one.
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Thanks for all your posts Sue, looked at winners today and did a search of TKMaxx and TJMaxx and found nothing listed, so we are none the wiser except johnphillip giving the particular technique a name battuto.
regards bruce
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:)
I had a good search too - zilch, but the stuff they get in is so irregular ::). It's an amazing combination of total trash, middle-of-the-road and the occassional something absolutely stunning. I like to keep an eye on it when I get a chance, because it does turn up in the secondary market, with serious price hikes and dubious attributions. Also because of the occassional stunning bits I really want!
There was no way I was implying this was anything cheap or of dubious workmanship, merely that it could well be very modern. :thup:
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I think that what might be termed a "battuto revival" was started by Ivan Baj, with Arcade http://www.arcadeavec.com/artists/baj.php
and http://www.arcadeavec.com/publicareaarcade.php These are very impressive pieces.
However, this was swiftly followed by a number of big importers producing derivatives, mainly in India, which were less expensive and while the quality was actually quite reasonable, when put side by side with the Arcade pieces, the difference is very noticeable.
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Is Caithness a possibility?
http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/pkay6/?action=view¤t=Caithness_Flint_Bulb_Vase_230mm_Eme.jpg
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Is that definitely Caithness TC? Seems unlikely? Max <~prepared to be wrong!
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There's two on ebay with labels and signed...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RETRO-PAIR-CAITHNESS-GREEN-CRYSTAL-ONION-SHAPED-VASES_W0QQitemZ110327932125
:fwr:
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Wow! Thanks TC, you live and learn! :kissy:
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Whay has the seller of the two green ones added 'Country of origin Italy' if they are Caithness?
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Well spotted Pat. :) I guess we'd need a Caithness expert to say how Caithness had vases with an Italian looking technique that come from Italy. :huh:
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Hiya,
Where to start.
Please, make sure you're comparining the same thing :(
I don't believe that the Caithness/Italian vases come from the same source as the red vase that started this thread. Yes, they have some similarity, BUT they are not finished in the same way .... note finished. Yes the battuto technique is basically the same, but the finishing is differnt - and that is critical. Nor does the pattern cover the whole vase, as so often with Caithness when this, and similar, decorative technique is used by them.
I have watched this seller on and off over the months since he started selling his collection of '2000' and have found him a tad wayward on attribution and dating. In this case he should be correct, since the pair of vases have labels, which, sadly he doesn't show. Then he goes on to mention the country of origin is Italy, leaving us with a question mark.
For me there are too many unanswered questions to make this an accurate attribution for the original question. Interestingingly, it does raise other questions about where Caithnnes glass was made, and did they outsource? I have some otherwise Caithness pieces with "Made in Poland" labels on the base which I have been trying to verify..... but that should be for another thread.
Therefore my vote is, NOT Caithness.
Cheers, Nigel
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I don't have a clue who made this, but I wanted to comment on the design. This would be quite difficult to cut. The pattern is very regular, more so than any others that have been shown. Trying to make perfect hexagons in a regular pattern while accounting for the curvature of the piece would take a deft hand. They aren't perfect, but nevertheless it seems an important aspect of the piece, and I would think other examples of the same pattern would be similarly regular.
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Hi: If you check the listing for the two green Caithness vases, you'll see the seller apologizes for the Italy attribution and corrects himself to British in an addendum to the listing.
David
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Hi,
You're quite right David, but he has also removed the phrase/sentence about the country of origin overnight - since I emailed him for clarification.
I confess I missed the piece you are referring to, whcih was actually done on the 3 October :-[
He confirmed that the labels suggested British. Still leaves me with my problem piece :o
The Caithness cutting is quite irregular - good point about the original red vase being fairly regular hexangonarly cut.
Nigel
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A couple of years ago I went to TKMaxx in Hammersmith and they had a tall battuto-esque piece by IVV (near Empoli & Florence) Italy. It was rather nice. I now wish I had bought it as an example as it was very cheap. However I only went there to investigate what was on offer as there was quite a lot of TK Max turning up on Ebay at that time and sure enough I saw a piece very much like it being sold as vintage Murano buttuto a few weeks later.
When Caithness went into receivership, about 18 months ago I think, newspaper reports at the time suggested that they had been buying in glass for other manufacturers and re-branding it. I don't know how long they had been doing that.
Over time I have learned that it's a practise which has been happening for some decades among UK glass and ceramics makers. Hence you get Royal Brierley, Royal Doulton and Wedgwood crystal from Slovakia / Slovenia for example. I have photo examples of the labels from the web / Ebay for my own reference which of course I am unable to share here due to copyright.
I have no such evidence for Caithness but it would make sense and thgere's no reason to doubt it. The reports were financial / business ones concerned only with profitability or the lack thereof.
Peter
Peter
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A very unusual looking vase. From the description of the rim, have you tried identifying if it could be Bohemian/Sko? ::)
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Are you suggesting the Borske Sklo optic mould blown vases? If so, quite different as some Borske Sklo might have a similar shape and optical effect but that's achieved by moulding not battuto. If not Borske Sklo, then I still don't think it's Bohemian and certainly not Sklo Union.
I've yet to see IVV battuto, which doesn't mean much by itself, but I don't think it looks like the kind of thing IVV do. It's very labour intensive. I still think the likeliest source for this is Indian, as suggested earlier. I've seen the Arcade pieces that Adam mentioned (by Baj and Laura de Santillana, if I remember). They're absolutely stunning and quite different from this piece, not that I am suggesting that this pieces is without merit. I think it's a really interesting piece, but one that you'd collect strictly for its intrinsic value without consideration of who made it. It's much, much better than what I see in charity shops in Vancouver.
David