Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: norman warbreck on December 11, 2008, 11:41:05 AM
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once again this has a sklo union feel to me......when it comes to haot worked pieces i still find it difficult to tell them apart from murano
is there a thread where i can learn how to look at these hot worked pieces.much appreciated.
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The Sklo Union factories made pressed glass, not hot worked Norman. I don't think there is an easy way to tell them apart
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Does this change colour with different lighting, Norman? That lilac makes me wonder if it could be dichroic glass. http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,1277.0.html
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hi there
i did notice the color change when i took the pic...this changes to a light light lilac
and the same goes for the other....in direct light it is nearly colorless with a very slight tinge of rose pink
intersting stuff and all a good read. must sa i learn a lot from all the most helpful people here on the board
and thank u all once again
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Kristi's observations on Dichroic glass and Norman's response have been split off and merged into the Dichroic Glass topic referred to above.
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Oh good, thanks Anne. I was thinking I should have written that reply in the dichroic thread instead.
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I find Hi Sklo Lo Sklo by Mark Hill the best place to discover the range of possibilities in hot-worked Czech glass. If you've got it, sorry for the redundancy. Part of the problem is that quite a lot of this type of Czech glass is sold as Murano (and in Canada as Chalet). Yet there is a clear difference between Murano and the Czech glass in colour and shape. I'm not sure I could quite articulate the difference, yet I'm sure I could tell them apart. I'm particularly drawn to the Skrdlovice pieces.
I think if you start with the colours, especially the colour combinations, used in Czech glass, you will see a difference. On this piece, the shape, the little ears, the asymmetry, and how the surface of the glass has been worked all say Czech to me. Of course, given my track record, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if it turns out to be from somewhere else.
David
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hi David
hmmm thats the way i am treating it at the moment going by the light colors...they seem to have a color of their own, as yes as per Mark's book these are of course not all the examples i guess but certainly something to go by. Do have a look at another one i posted here as there is no comment as yet on that one.(the two color...at base of vase) ..and let me know what u think.here in switzerland everything is termed murano and they swear that they purchased it in the 50s in italy...blah blah blah.The prices for murano here are sky high and so far i have been buying examples only with labels or those that i recognize clearly as czech glass. thanks for your comments.
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Hi Norman,
Is this the vase that I put the comment "Miroslav Klinger" under? Or is it another?
Nigel
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hi nigel
its the òther`....i will post a base pic as requested.
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Looks typical of ZBS in neodymium glass to me.
Terry had one very similar (the same ?) http://picasaweb.google.com/muscadale/Collections#5040994708733713698
altho I notice that one does not appear to have a label. Sadly we can't ask him and his glass has now been disposed of by his family.
The bowl above it I had sent to him and that had pinched and twisted effects in the glass hard to describe. We were not able to confirm that is ZBS.
The fish was id'd from the ZBS website - it's still in current production or was last time I looked.
The rest have labels.
As far as I know Kilnger did a number of designs for ZBS. There is at least one hot worked piece by him for ZBS shown in Ricke : Design in the Age of Adversity. I'll be able to look at a copy tomorrow.
Pete
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hi Pete,
thanks for that info. Could u please let me have the link for the ZBS website.
many thanks and have a great holiday.
norman
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Ho Norman,
Glassfactory ZBS - Železnobrodské sklárny is part of Jablonex Group - original web site www.zbs.cz will switch you to
http://business.jablonexgroup.com/
They do not produce free-hand hot formed glass anymore. But I am pretty sure that ZBS had existed after 1992 in Czech republic, so look at label, if therei is Made in Czechoslovakia (than the piece is from 70ties or 80ties) or Made in Czech republic - then from 90ties.
This piece is often attributed to Miloslav Klinger. I did not find any serious paper source that would confirm it for the moment. It is known that the artcle about him should be in Neue Glasrevue 1/1992, I will check it later.
Miloslav Klinger (10.1. 1922 - 5.6. 1999) had after Russian invasion to Czechoslovakia in 1968 big troubles and was witch-hunted by communists. Thereofore his name is very hard to find in contemporary papers, he was designer for ZBS in 70ties and 80ties but rather anonymous, he survived only with help of few friends from Skloexport that sale his pieces abroad. From the end of 80ties he was badly ill with Parkinson's disease.
Jindrich
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Hoi Jindrich,
thank u for the links...great stuff.
sadly there is no label attached....as all those here pull them off and then try and sell them as murano....to get a better price.So sad as they are destroying history. Well this is where stupidity and greed meet.
i really had little idea what happened to the workers and designers of the time....it makes me feel so sad.
but once again great chatting and in the new year i will be adding a page to my website with all the(czech) glass i have and with labels attached so that would be helpful to all...i hope some gaps will be filled.
best
norman
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Klinger was a designer for ZBS, from 1948-1982. Try Glass Review Vol 37. Issue 12. pages 20-27. 1982
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Not exactly Marcus :-)
Miloslav Klinger was:
výtvarníkem Železnobrodského skla (1948 - 63, 1966 - 82) a ředitelem SUPŠS v Žel. Brodě(1963 - 66)
(designer of ŽBS (1948 - 63, 1966 - 82) and director of The High School of Applied Arts for Glassmaking in Železný Brod (1963 - 66).
More details here: http://www.glassrevue.com/news.asp?nid=5476&cid=0
Jindrich
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Marcus was right in what he said - you're splitting hairs Jindrich.
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Ahh yes I do remember Jablonex taking over the website about 2-3 years ago. Before that there was a ZBS website and that was what the fish was ID's from. There was quite a large range of abstract looking animal figures in the catalogue there, in the typical ZBS pastel colours.
Peter
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No dear Pip. Ia m not splitting the hair, I use to be true always (when my wife in not at home).
Unortunatly with dying Crystalex seems to me is dead also web site www.glassrevue.com, or now does not work.
Here you could read:
"Po založení národního podniku Železnobrodské sklo se stal jeho výtvarníkem. Na sklářské škole byl externím učitelem hutních figurek, prvním výtvarníkem z jeho iniciativy vytvořeného oddělení hutního tvarování skla a tři roky ředitelem, potom se jako výtvarník vrátil do Železnobrodského skla."
So if you should clearly see that "he had worked for ZBS from founding this company and externaly had teached at glass-school and he has found at school the departement of free hand hot forming of glass, for three years Klinger has interupted his job in ZBS and was director of this school, and than has returned back to ZBS as designer. :-)))
Or have you better understanding Czech? :-))
Jindrich
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Yes you're splitting hairs - Marcus was absolutely right with his dates, he just didn't mention the small break in between - but the dates stand. In answer to your question, no Jindrich I don't speak Czech but I can understand sarcasm perfectly well thanks.
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So in fact I was true, Pip :-) when I wrote "not exactly" to my friend Marcus, isn't it?
Three years is not nothing, I remember it for my young time when I was oblidged for duty in Czechoslovak army for one year only as graduated, two years was duty for not graduated and 3 years for Russian sailors :-)
You can't immagine how many days a year have...in army...
Jindrich
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'Dear' Jindrich, as you well know the dates Marcus gave were correct - Klinger worked there between the dates given and I don't believe Marcus said he worked there exclusively.
This must be a terribly boring exchange for the other members of the GMB to have to follow and, since it's patently clear you have an ulterior motive I shall desist from commenting further.
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Can this exchange be stopped now please? Disputes between members will result in this topic being removed.