Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Bohemia, Czechoslovakia, Czech Republic, Austria => Topic started by: norman warbreck on December 18, 2008, 03:38:48 PM
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The frontispiece is cut with 2 buildings which have a religious theme...and above the buildings the word....PRAHA
the base is acid stamped Ex B Or czechoslavakia
and ideas on this piece ...other than what it states...thanks
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The company is Egermann (Egerman?) Exbor.It was/is in Nový Bor. Praha is Prague
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Not Egermann, Egermann is post-revolution designation of privatised part of socialistic concern Crystalex from Nový Bor.
ExBor was a trade mark for exclusive glass fabricated in Nový Bor factory in sixties and seventies in divison 13, exclusive glass -> hence Ex(clusive) Bor (Nový = New - see New York :-)). Note formerly this capital of Czech glassworking had name Haida, mostly with German population before WWII.
This piece is probably from pre-revolution period, displaing Church of St. Nicolas in Prague. Please supply me more pictures if possible, I will try tu identify more details.
Best regards from Praha (Prague)
Jindrich
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thank u once again...i will take more pics next year as i am on holiday but always keep in touch with the board.
planning a trip to Prague next year as i still need to learn a lot.have so many czech pieces and at a loss at the best of times.
once again many tks.
norman
switzerland
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Not Egermann, Egermann is post-revolution designation of privatised part of socialistic concern Crystalex from Nový Bor.
Langhamer's Legend of Bohemian Glass shows a Crystalex trademark that says "Egermann Czechoslovakia" in the section for logos between 1949-1989.
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Langhamer is bothery communist and at that time was paid from privatised Egermann-Exbor company.
This company tried to profit from both known names - Egermann (not used in socialist Czechoslovakia) and ExBor. Probably in privatisation became trade marks their property. So the cat-dog animal had been created in 1991. Game with tradition is fine, but this was the beginning of the end of Czech glass production, factories went to hands of robbers.
I hope that attachements (page from Neue Glasrevue 2.3.92) and page from original ExBor catalogue from 1969 will explain what has happened. Sorry for German, one has to be very flexible in this country :-)
Jindrich
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Now I'm really confused. In the first attachment, why would it say Egermann Czechoslovakia (rather than Egermann Czech Republic) if the Egermann name wasn't used during the socialist regime? This short history (http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/search_the_collection_database/term_details.aspx) seems to indicate that the company called Egermann-Exbor or Exbor was established in 1962. Is it possible the official name included "Egermann" but people simply didn't call it that?
I found it interesting that the company manufactured replicas of museum pieces for a Japanese company.
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Well, seems to me that I have to explain to you a bit more.
My country changed name several time in the recently:
The main changes came on the one of 1989, when comunismus felt. Czechoslovakia however still existed up to the end of 1992. At that time the official name of state was Czech and Slovak Federal Republic. Since 1st January 1993 we are Czech republic.
Up to the end of 1990 all glassfactories and in fact all industry in Czechoslovakia was owned by state. Than on the end 1990 started so called "privatisation". I am not keen to speak about politic, so in fact in this period many factories had changed owner, some of them has been returned to relatives of original pre-socialist owners (for example Škrdlovice to family Beranek), some of them felt o hands of not very clear financial groups or financial funds.
I do not know the privatisation history of Crystalex in details, but it is apparent that one privatisation group has recieved some part of factory in Novy Bor and had estabilished Egermann-Exbor company. Naturaly Egermann-Exbor Czechoslovakia. After splitting of state to Czech republic and Slovac republic in 1993 the name has been changed to Egermann-Exbor Czech republic.
So caption Czechoslovakia doees not mean that it was fabricated in former socialist Czechoslovakia, but can come also from a short period 1990 - 1992. Note please, that also trade marks "Bohemia Glass" and "Bohemia Crystal" has silently changed after 1992 the caption from "Czechoslovakia" to "Czech republic" even looks very simmilar and for the first view same.
I will check the history of privatisation of Crystalex more details in future, so perhaps I will be able to explain what has happened with trade marks and how it has happened that those beeing used by Egermann-Exbor company. The conterporary articles in Glassrevue does not give us real true information becouse it that time Glassrevue was already financed by privatised groups. Story of big succes had very short and hard end.
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Please forget the name "Egermann" for designation pieces fabricated in socialistic Czechoslovakia. This name had not been used either as trademark nor as company name. Pieces signed ExBor are simple ExBor, let old Egermann sleep in piece.
Here are the facts from Czech company registry:
1. Company:
EGERMANN, s.r.o. (s.r.o = LTD)
Id: 62242652
Praha 1, Staré Město, Maiselova 38/15, PSČ 11001
Founded: 13.04.1995
2. Company
EGERMANN-EXBOR, s.p. (s.p. = state company)
Id: 00177105
Nový Bor, okres Česká Lípa
Founded: 31.12.1990
Likvidated: 4.10. 2000
3. Company
EGERMANN EXBOR - NOVOBOR s.r.o. (LTD)
Id: 00555045
Choceň, Husova 86, okres Ústí nad Orlicí
Founded: 01.10.1990
In bancrupcy since: 22. 9. 1997
4. Company
EGERMANN TRADE s.r.o. (LTD)
IČO: 27876471
Praha 1, Staré Město, Maiselova 38/15, PSČ 11001
Founded: 26.03.2007
who wants to study management flow from company to company he can do it easy at
http://obchodni-rejstrik.i-online.cz/
I will prefare to concetrate to glass an design of glass.
Note please how hidden is company history on exesting website of Egermann. s.r.o. :-) trying to suggest that Egermann has existed fluently for many years. I am sorry that Langhamer did play his role in this misleading.
http://www.egermann.cz
I will focus now to proper identifacation of trade marks and labels. I will report you the result.
Jindrich
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This name had not been used either as trademark nor as company name.
???
Arnost, Drahotova, Langhamer. "Bohemian Glass" 1985, page 61.
Crystalex Works 1, Novy Bor.
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Marcus, have you any evidence about using Egermann as trade mark and as a label in period 1948-1989 ?
I have not seen it here.
The natioalised glass factories in Nový Bor had in this period a lot of different names, Borocrystal, Borské sklo, Crystalex... etc but never Egermann.
Jindrich
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Hi Jindrich,
The Egermann brand, is shown in Arnost, Drahotova, Langhamer. "Bohemian Glass" 1985, page 61 as a trade-mark of the Crystalex Branch Corporation.
Also page 182 of the same publication.
Regards,
Marcus
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Hi Marcus,
trade mark Egermann had been registered for Crystalex, and before for Borské sklo... etc.. traditionaly - in two forms - caption, and picture of Egermann.
I never seen it at label or used in promotional materials of Borocrystal, Borské sklo or Crystalex. As paper label it has been introduced after creation Egermann-Exbor s.r.o. as stated before.
Picture "stamps" show marks used surely in 1969 and picture "marks" in 1991. After that came chaos.
I do not know that book, is it really 1985 not 1995?
I have Czech one from 1993 with the same name from the same persons, but this one was already written under the guidance Egermann-Exbor management. Designation Egermann-Exbor could not exist before 1992 so I am surpised how often this mistake is repeated in description of pieces from sixties and seventies. At that time has existed design atelier Exbor as part of Crystalex only - forget Egermann :-).
JIndrich
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Designation Egermann-Exbor could not exist before 1992
2. Company
EGERMANN-EXBOR, s.p. (s.p. = state company)
Id: 00177105
Nový Bor, okres Česká Lípa
Founded: 31.12.1990
Likvidated: 4.10. 2000
3. Company
EGERMANN EXBOR - NOVOBOR s.r.o. (LTD)
Id: 00555045
Choceň, Husova 86, okres Ústí nad Orlicí
Founded: 01.10.1990
In bancrupcy since: 22. 9. 1997
I tried entering a whole bunch of companies in the company registry, many known to exist prior to 1990, and only one appeared with any information before that date (even then it was from 1988). I don't read Czech, so I may have been using it wrong - all I did was enter the name in the first line and click "Vyhledat."
The full title of the book Marcus mentioned by Arnost, et al. is Bohemian glass. The History of Bohemian Glass and the Present at the Crystalex Branch Corporation Novy Bor. It was published by The Crystalex Branch Corporation - Novy Bor in 1985.
Might it be possible that the "Egermann" part of the company name only appeared on pieces bound for export? I have no idea, I'm just trying to make sense of the evidence. Marcus and Jindrich clearly know more about this than I.
Sorry, Jindrich, I know you'd rather focus on identification than on details like this. :) As I have been reminded in the past, it's important that the right information appear in these threads because it gets seen by others for years to come.
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Egermann has been a Czech Republic trademark since 1966 and currently belongs to
Egermann, s.r.o.
Maiselova 15, Praha 1, Czech Republic, 11001
If you go here (http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/tm/t-os/t-find/t-find-number.htm) and type in U00000504805 (this was internationally registered in 1986 and in Slovakia in 1997) and E4221503, you will see
E744037 is a European registration dating from 1999
US registrations
If you go here (http://www.uspto.gov/#), choose the search TM database option, and type in 0834494 you will see it was also registered in the USA in 1967
(REGISTRANT) BORSKE, SKLO, NARODNI PODNIK CORPORATION CZECHOSLOVAKIA NOVY BOR CZECHOSLOVAKIA
(LAST LISTED OWNER) CRYSTALEX, OBOROVY PODNIK CORPORATION BY CHANGE OF NAME FROM CZECHOSLOVAKIA NOVY BOR CZECHOSLOVAKIA
This registration is now dead but 0834494 is a live US variant
Exbor Czechoslovakia was registered in the USA in 1963 but is now dead
See 0753320
(REGISTRANT) BORSKE SKLO, NARODNI PODNIK CORPORATION CZECHOSLOVAKIA NOVY BOR CZECHOSLOVAKIA
(LAST LISTED OWNER) CRYSTALEX OBOROVY PODNIK CORPORATION BY CHANGE OF NAME FROM CZECHOSLOVAKIA NOVY BOR CZECHOSLOVAKIA
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Great site, Christine! One of those things that makes me think, Why didn't I know about that before? That will come in handy. Nice work.
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Don´t celebrate friends,
the trademark registry I have checked as first and I suppose that everybody can - even not Czech language fan at
http://www.upv.cz/pls/portal30/ozfrm
(at example Egermann trade mark you can see that owner (factory) of this trade mark was not named Egermann, but Crystalex, Borocrystal, Borské sklo before 1989)
Nothing against fact that trademark "Egermann" has been inherited from the pre-war company to Borocrystal, Borské sklo, Crystalex, Egermann-Exbor s.r.o and then to Egermann s.r.o (which is currently dying).
This trademark, however, was not used for labeling glass until 1992. I have not found it in any single Crystalex, Borske sklo or Borocrystal leaflet, advertising material, etc before 1992. Labels I placed here yesterday are originals from conterporary documents.
So when you see paper label Egermann at any glass please take maximum care, this piece is very probably fabricated after 1992, when you see label Egermann-Exbor it is absolutely sure that it had been fabricated between 1992 -1997.
Jindrich
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What if the Egermann trademark was only used on exported items, though? Maybe it doesn't appear in Czech literature for that reason. There are items with labels saying Egermann Czechoslovakia (here, for example (http://www.goantiques.com/detail,egermann-bohemian-glass,1493875.html)), so the trademark must have been used before 1992.
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It is generaly possible, Kirsty, of course. In such case I would expect it only on typical red Egermann's style pieces.
But I am still trying to focus you to short period in 1992 when Czechoslovakia has existed and Egermann label "Egerman Czechoslovakia" is documented.
Jindrich