Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: pokermon6 on December 27, 2008, 02:02:24 PM
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I have purchased 2 paperweights i am almost sure they are paul ysarts but not 100% please help. the one on the left is signed caithness 1962
thanks
Gary
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Yes, both appear to be Paul Ysart weights.
I would like to see separate, larger images of each weight just to see the cane details better (it's a fascination I have). Also, could you please show a photo of the base of each - at a slight angle as the features may help to confirm the dating.
And one more request, please ... an image showing the "caithness 1962" on the left-hand weight would be useful. Most reference works on Paul Ysart state that he joined Caithness Glass at Wick during 1963.
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few more pics i will sort a picture out for the bottom of the left one. i have found out he was at Caithness training in 1962 also found quite alot of the canes in the weights. both have quite large what i would call polished pontil.
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sorry other pics didnt work
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another picture
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picture of the bottom of the left one
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These 2 weights could be for sale anyone any idea of price ? I have a rough idea but will listen to what people think
Thanks Gary
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i have found out he was at Caithness training in 1962
As the 1963 date came from Paul Ysart himself it would be very hard to change that without documentary evidence. A date on a weight does not do it. You mention having found out, what did you find out and where please?
There could be any number of reasons for a 1962 date on the weight and it would not be the first time a first hand date information was proven incorrect.
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Hi Frank just searching where i read about him doing training at Caithness in 1962 will let you know later when i find it out. I am sure the canes are right for ysart. what do you think Frank you seem a very knowledgeable person. What would you think about the 1962 on the bottom yet it says he wasnt there until 1963 ? will let you know later about what i found
Many thanks
Gary
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www.scottishbordersartglass.com/neweb/peter.htm
Peter Holmes: was born on the 3rd December 1947 in Bourton-on-the-water Gloucester England. He moved to Scotland in 1958 so his schooling was in both countries. Whilst at school in 1962 he helped the village blacksmith where he lived as a Saturday job. The blacksmith used to repair and sharpen the tools of a well-known glassmaker called Paul Ysart. It was Paul who persuaded him to take up an apprentice in glassmaking at Caithness Glass in Wick, where he was the training officer.
On January 21st 1963 he started his apprenticeship.
it was Paul who persuaded him to take up an aprenticeship which he started 21st jan 1963 which must mean Paul was there before that date which would be late 1962 ?
hope this helps
Gary
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Hi all members i am new to this forum and have been reading the comments re ysart paperweights.Most of us know that fraudsters have gone to a lot of work useing time and money producing fake py canes in ysart weights in order to make them look real to deceive us they are not clever enough to do research and would not have wrote caithness 1962 on them when they would have only read about him at caithness in 1963.I have also read and seen that he was at caithness in late 1962 and will help out as much as i can .
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1962 or 1963? Does it really make a difference? Perhaps! Perhaps not! But it's one of those uncertainties (like the year Paul Ysart actually left Caithness Glass) that arises out of differing "facts" from various literature and personal comments.
Taken together, the various entries in websites and books give an unclear idea. Some references give an explicit year of 1962 and others, 1963. At least one reference, based on Paul Ysart's stated age at the time (61), gives a deduced year (from his date of birth, June 1904) of either 1965 or 1966, which is too late and suggests a probable misprint of his age!
From certain references, I am beginning to think that the actual date of Paul's move may have been late in 1962 and perhaps as late as December. However ...
... as Frank says, the year 1963 came from Paul himself. As well as being given in the Ysart Glass book (1990), that date was also stated in the catalogue for the British Glass Between the Wars exhibition at Broadfield House Glass Museum in 1978.
Also, I have a CD of a set of taped interviews with Paul Ysart which were recorded in 1978 in preparation for a book on Scottish glass but which never made publication. On the tapes, Paul said that he started work, with his father, at Moncrieffs in Perth in 1922 and on two separate occasions he stated that he was with Moncrieffs for 41 years - suggesting the move to Caithness Glass at Wick was sometime in 1963.
I shall try to contact Peter Holmes to get confirmation of some of the "facts" reported.
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Many Many thanks for your time Kev. If you require any photos of these paperweights for your web site or literature please let me know i am sure we can arange a meet for you to photo them properly.
Gary
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Hi "mdina glass". Welcome to the Board and to this discussion.
The weights with false py canes were produced long after the period we are thinking about here and, in any event, I am absolutely sure (athough I did originally use the words "appear to be") that both of Gary's weights are genuine Paul Ysart items - and, in my view, very nice ones they are, too!
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I have found out Paul ysart actualy started work at Caithness in May of 1962 as it says in the English paperweight book as a consultant initialy. Both these weights will be available to buy on Ebay as from Thursday or Friday unless we get some reasonable offers before Thursday. They are both definatley Ysart all canes have now been identified as Pauls canes. The signed one will be a real good buy for a collector of Paul ysart paperweights
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Yes I had heard that too, probably same source.
The weight would also be of interest to Caithness collectors as few Caithness weights were made by Paul and with that signature it makes sense.
I would appreciate some hi-resolution images on a light neutral background for Scotland's Glass web-site please, various angles and details please. Use e-mail icon on left.
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Frank i will send you and Kevh some hi res pictures before they leave my possesion
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Thanks :-)
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I have found out Paul ysart actualy started work at Caithness in May of 1962 as it says in the English paperweight book as a consultant initialy.
Could you please give details of which "English paperweight book" this is, and page number of the reference would be good, too.
It would also be useful to check the weight with a UV light - a regular longwave (blacklight") will do. If the clear glass shows as a definite green colour, then I'd query it being made at Caithness, Wick.
[Unfortunately, due to a bad dose of throat and catarrh problems, I have not been able to concentrate on much recently, so I have not made much progress in any investigations.]
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In the book PAPERWEIGHTS OF GREAT BRITAIN 1930-2000 BY John Simmonds
Page 15 chapter 2 it says Paul Ysart joined Caithness glass co ltd Wick in May 1962 as personel officer. But paperweight remained formost in his mind.
He was contracted to produce 288 paperweights per month but the actual amount is unknown
Gary
The Ysart paperweights are pictured between a couple of wedgwood paperweights to show the difference in colour
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Charlton (thus Colin Terris) also states Paul Ysart joined Caithness in 1962.
It also occurs to me the signed weight changes the history of Caithness weights by 7 years! Hopefully Kevin you can get more information from John S. as I cannot think of anyone else that would be useful in exploring this apparently 'unknown' history.
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Frank i have spoke to a guy today who used to work at Caithness but i dont know when and for how long so i will ask him when he started there and see if he knows anymore
cheers
GARY
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I see Larry of Selman fame brought them both!
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:huh: The two eBay listings have different wiining bidders and I don't think either are Mr Selman.
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Thought I saw thembeing brought by the same ID last night, which I think is Larry Selmans buying ID..... I might be wrong though....
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Yes, wrong, sunshine.
One was a regular here on the GMB, based in Germany.
The other was from the USA, but not Larry. I think Larry Selman's ebay ID is "w8s".
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I think W8s is his selling ID, and paperwts is his buying one.......
Still might be wrong, I bow to my dads superior knowledge (theres a first :P)
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Hi,
re: PY joining in 1962 or 1963, I raised this question in conversation with Peter Holmes in December 2007, and Peter was quite certain that he himself joined CG in January 1963, and that he had met Paul at the blacksmith's the previous summer.
I sometimes can't remember which year I joined / left several companies 10 or 20+ years ago, unless I check my CV...
So, I'm not sure Paul would in 1978, at which point he was 74.
andy_n
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I believe that his period of consultancy, mentioned above, explains the discrepancy as the information on when he left Moncrieff is reasonably reliable. So I will amend my records/sites accordingly. Documentary proof will unlikely be available until the social security records are available, later this century.