Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: ditzen pieces on January 13, 2009, 01:53:20 AM
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this is a lovely piece
it has a large tear drop in the stopper. the old tag is written in french i think :mus: i dont read french.
any help of age or maker would be apreciated
cheers lynne
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My somewhat rusty French translates this as:
This item has been entirely decorated by hand in the style of the Master Stainers by Louis and Josette Orselly, craftspersons. They have used their skill and love so that it pleases you.
Marque depose means registered trademark
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thankyou Anne :fwr:
i dont spose you could put an age to it.. or any idea of quality.. it has a lovely finish and the pontil is much like that of whitefriars
anyhow your translation is much appreciated
cheers lynne
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Sorry, Lynne, don't have a clue as to age or maker. :cry:
(And someone will probably correct my rusty French as well! >:D)
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Firsly, the makers are not in the Guide des Verriers, so they would be decorators. Estanniers refers to pewter. And one Ebay.fr item (still in Google's cache) says:
Très joli pichet en verre bullé dans le style des verreries de Biot rehaussé de motif fleural en étain, jamais utilisé et en parfait état. l'étiquette mentionne " cet objet a été décoré entièrement à la main à la façon des anciens maistres estainiers par louis et josette Orselly artisans créateurs. ils lui ont apporté avec leur savoir tout leur amour afin qu'il puisse vous plaire" pensez à la fete des mères, voilà un joli cadeau qui plaira.
which at least suggests it is from one of the decorators around the village of Biot. This would place it in the past 30 years or so - also the model seems recent.
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I've just realised that Maistres isn't Masters, that should be Maîtres, so are the spellings archaic or is there some poetic licence? My French cousin doesn't recognise the work Estainier at all. (There is an old profession called Painter-Stainers in the UK, no idea what the French equivalent would be though, and I'm not even sure if there's a connection!)
Pewter doesn't seem to make any sense in respect of this though. The label says Estainiers not Estanniers, and my dictionary give étain for pewter, not estain, so I'm still puzzled.
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Oh Anne, please never give up!
The circonflexe ^stands for a S lost many many years ago: compare: forest forêt , fenêtre Fenster (window) , bâtiment Bastille, endless!
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in the old guild system there were maistres verriers (master glass makers) and maistres estainniers (master pewter workers). Little relation to contemporary French, I'm afraid.
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Morning everyone
ok please say all this in a learners term as my obsession with glass is only young.. I do so appreciate the effort that is made in this site for glass id with pieces that we need information on.. it is truelly amazing the knowledge you share
thankyou
cheers lynne
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Ahhh right, so it is an archaic usage then. My cousin wondered if it was, but she's not a historian so wasn't familiar with the terms. Thanks for explanations Pamela and Ivo. :)
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But I can't see any decoration, it just looks like plain glass from the photo, which, if my assumption is correct, kind of implies it's the wrong label or there is a holder missing
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stick-on pewter decoration may have fallen off or removed for the sake of decency?
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hi all been checking the thread was wondering is it possible the item was never completed.. the handle is very elegant it goes from a wide base to almost like a swan neck with a fine point where it attaches to the top. and as i said before it is well finished clean and crisp the pontil is much like a whitefriars base very clean.. i will take a pic in light tomorrow and upload it
cheers everyone thankyou for your effort
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Please take a photo against a plain background and one of the base. Have you checked the base to see if there a mark?
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stick-on pewter decoration may have fallen off or removed for the sake of decency?
Hmmm yes, or a glass version of a pewter original maybe?
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you are all wonderful but the question has come to light :ghug: on taking the decanter outside i found marks on the bowl that suggest something was on the body maybe the pewter that ivo suggests... i have tried to capture the marks as best i could it was hard with clear glass.... also pics of pontil and handle hope this helps
and once again thankyou all so much
cheers lynne :hiclp:
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Oops i just had another thought !!!! is it possible the decanter was made buy someone other than orselly and sent or consigned to lious for decoration
cheers
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Almost certainly; glass decorating, refining, as it's called, is often a separate thing altogether. Sometimes it's done in-house by the glass manufacturer, sometimes it's sub-contracted out by the manufacturer, and sometimes glass is bought in by the refiner (and possibly other variations). In this case, the Orsellys were/are almost certainly glass refiners who bought in glass to decorate and sell on; otherwise the glass woudn't be sold as "decorated by", more likely as simply "made by".
What puzzles me is why we have a label intact but no decoration. A stuck-on label in good condition usually implies dusting but little washing or use. A tie-on label in good condition would imply dusting but no washing or use - you simply wouldn't keep taking it off and putting it back on - so where did the decoration go? It would have to be pretty shoddy to disappear with dusting. OR maybe the label came from elsewhere. Labels are mobile, unfortunately. The archaic French is just a marketing affectation I suspect rather than a clue.
Try a picture against a black ground with and without flash. That may help to highlight any markings. Did you look on the bottom for an etched or engraved mark? How much wear is there on the bottom?
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Hi all
well these are some pics i tried to take in low lighting i hope they are clear enough... i searched the piece all over cannot find any maker marks! the base has wear signs and i took a pic of the other side of the tag as i just noticed it has writing on it.. it is obviously the tag for the piece as the marks of something being attached to it are evident as pics show i have tried to wash the marks of to no avail.. i also took another pic of the stopper it is really quite lovely on close inspection..
once again i am so enjoying this road of discovery thankyou so much
cheers lynne
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Et voila! an example with a pewter bit still attached:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150318476693 8)
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Thankyou Anne
this is the same maker yes??
it has a cork stopper which would mean that the piece is a later one??
the maker is not well known in the glass world as i have tried everywhere to find out relevent information ie age and so on
oh well some things are as good as it gets.. cheers everyone and once again thankyou
lynne
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It's the same decorator, Lynne. The person who applied the pewter parts. I would suspect, and others will know more than I do on this, that they source their blanks from various makers rather than just one place, so we still don't know who the glassmaker was for yours, or if it was the same glassmaker as made the whisky one on eBay, but the decorator for both pieces is the same person.