Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: interiorforms on February 08, 2009, 08:58:11 PM
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I usually do not buy paperweights but this one caught my eye. Is it someone's art project or is it something attributable? It has a very nice optical effect, and the sides remind me of sea anemones. It has fair amount of wear on the bottom and a worn pontil mark. Thanks for any help! Kim
http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr236/interiorforms/paperweight03.jpg
http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr236/interiorforms/paperweight02.jpg
http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr236/interiorforms/paperweight01.jpg
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I forgot to mention that this paperweight has an interior bubble.
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I love replying to my own inquiry, especially with all those glass experts out there!
Anyway, this has many characteristics similar to mine, different colorway:
http://www.trocadero.com/svazzo/items/770013/item770013.html
Yea! This can now be moved to the "resolved" section?
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Hi,
Your photobucket images have all disappeared! Without them, other folk cannot comment on your paperweight or check whether they think it might or might not be a Dino Martens item.
It would be useful if you could place your images in the GlassGallery site, with a link from this thread, or just add them as embedded images in here. There would be little point marking this thread as "Resolved" if the images are not shown - even it may be a Martens item.
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Unlikely Kev, quality was not there.
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I am always careful when I say something is Dino's. The simpler filigrana patterns can be fairly easily duplicated by talented people. I am not really sure if Dino designed paperweights, though the filigrana pattern may be translated to paperweights by folks at Aureliano Toso. Does anyone know if Dino designed paperweights? Or would it be okay to attribute AToso things to him if one of his filigrana patterns is used?
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Because of the canes used, I was told this is Dino Martens. I currently have it on Ebay if you'd like to take a look. I don't know why the photos aren't appearing as they should since I have not touched them since this morning.
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I was told that this piece was originally purchased in the late 60s.
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Because of the canes used, I was told this is Dino Martens. I currently have it on Ebay if you'd like to take a look. I don't know why the photos aren't appearing as they should since I have not touched them since this morning.
I checked the weight and do not recognize the filigrana pattern. Aureliano Toso paperweights are often a bit crude, but it is usually in the lack of careful finish and polishing. I've not seen this filigrana pattern in anything Dino Martens has done. Who told you that the canes indicated that it was? Is there anything specific about the canes that are different from canes used by other companies?
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As I've stated, I do not usually buy paperweights. This is my first one. It was posted here for any comments or thoughts, I've shown it to some of my other glass enthusiasts here locally and the consensus was Dino Martens, Aureliano Toso. Frank, if you had viewed it earlier, why comment on it after the fact?
If members of this board are here to help those of us not too knowledgeable about certain areas of glass, why look at something and move on if you have an idea about a piece? Isn't that why this board is here, to help others? I look through all the new postings hoping I can help where I can. To look at someone's inquiry, and know something about it, and then not comment on it seems elitist to me.
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No one on the board decided that your weight was Dino Martens as far as I know. If you had asked, we would have said no -- which a couple of us did. My thoughts on your weight is that it was put together as a learning project.
The board is here to help. The members of this board have been so helpful to me in identifying things. There will be, of course, things that none of us recognize. I do think that it is important to not misuse the board.
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No one replied until someone noticed the photos were missing! If you read my initial post, I was asking for help! Nearly 80 people viewed or read my post before anyone replied, and then it wasn't until someone noticed the photos were removed! And if you are inferring that I am misusing this board then I will promptly stop using this board for help.
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To look at someone's inquiry, and know something about it, and then not comment on it seems elitist to me.
This is not the case at all. Not everbody will see the enquiry on the day it is posted or even in the same week or month. Those who have viewed a post will not necessarily know anything about the item.
Even if somebody has an idea about something, or a view that the quality may not be consistent with other work, those "facts" may be held back until further research is carried out. This all takes time. In general, many users of this board prefer to offer full information rather than a series of, "Not sure, might be this, but I need to check it out" type of comment.
Posting an enquiry on one day and then placing the item on eBay very soon afterwards does not allow reasonable time for people to form properly constructive views.
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This is not the case at all. Not everbody will see the enquiry on the day it is posted or even in the same week or month. Those who have viewed a post will not necessarily know anything about the item.
:::I wholly understand this. My point was, and is, that Frank obviously reviewed the photos, formed an opinion, and simply went on his merry way without commenting. He had to have an opinion on the piece considering his reply was after the photos vanished. Did he post his thoughts about "...quality was not there" or anything to that affect? No. Instead of stating his opinion that he doubted this piece to be a Dino Martens he simply went about his way.
Posting an enquiry on one day and then placing the item on eBay very soon afterwards does not allow reasonable time for people to form properly constructive views.
:::No. You are wrong in that regard. This is not the end all be all place to find and disperse glass knowledge. There are actually people outside this board who are very knowledgeable regarding glass. Please do not assume that just because this board exists that it is the voice of god for all things glass.
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I beg all users pardon, because my English is not as good as it has to be (my italian is much better).
I think that this board is not (only) for helping people.
It is for free discussion for ALL members and so,
it is the possibility for all users to learn more about the nice world of paperweights or glass.
To "interiorforms" I will say: Be superior and try a little bit of ZEN Buddhism for your patience. :angel:
I am not amused, that the pictures are gone, because I have tried to get more information and have had the intention to study further on.
I have looked in my books ( first of all the interesting "Werkverzeichnis" of Dino Martens, which is called:
"Dino Martens" by Marc Heiremanns - published by Arnoldsche and "Venetian Art Glass" by Marino Barovier, and so on...).
I have also phoned with my italian friends: Did Dino made paperweights?
Nobody knows it and nothing is verified, nothing is proofed.
But very often on ebay everybody told us about "gli artisti muranese, i fratelli toso, dino martens, MVM = maestri vetrai muranese ( Cappelini & Co), CVM = compagnia di vetri e mosaici de venezia e murano, AVEM = arte vetraia muranese,Venini, Martinuzzi, Zecchin, Scarpa" ..and so on!
(Murano e stato sempre un piccolo chaos come tutti gli italiani).
Every antique dealer says: better some origin, than non origin...!!!
I have had a question here on the board about a Dino Martens Paperweight, short time ago, because I am searching since 1 year, weather ( if?) he ever made paperweights.......
If you study dinos biography, it is evident: he is an designer, not a maker.
It is verified: most of his glass was made by glass workers in murano.
First of all by Aldo " Polo " Bon !
In Dino Martens " Liste del Opere = Werkverzeichnis= Catalouge, is not one Paperweight.
If there is a verified Paperweight of him anywhere in the world, I will give much money! :hiclp: :chky:
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Hi, Lothar. It is always good to see your name.
Most of the Dino Martens glass was probably executed by other people. As long as Dino designed it, it is considered Dino Martens. I don't know if he designed any PWs, but he could have. I am far from an expert on PWs, so I hope that people here might know if he designed some of them. Another thing I don't know is if Aureliano Toso used a Dino Martens pattern, e.g. his half filigree or "a trina" pattern, would it be considered as a Dino Martens design. He was the head of the company, so maybe it would be true??
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It appears I've started an on-going debate over whether or not Dino Martens designed paperweights...
I thoroughly research anything to which I am unsure. This piece was no exception.
This "paperweight" I initially thought was a test piece, but after showing it to a few people all immediately said paperweight. I'm used to seeing thick, clunky, high-domed paperweights, and that's when I actually pay them attention. I had no idea who or what a Dino Marten was until this weekend when a friend came over and I showed it to him. He said it was Dino Marten. Hearing Marten, I thought of some Scandinavian glass designer. Oh, no he says. Murano. Oh. I further show it to another glass fanatic. After looking it over for a few moments, she says Dino Martens. She directs me to a site:
http://www.trocadero.com/svazzo/items/770013/item770013.html
If this is not a Dino Martens "paperweight", then who designed it and who manufactured it?
and this one:
http://playwiffme.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=2882888
These, including mine, are blazingly obviously by the same manufacturer and/or designer.
If they are designs by Martens, and they are not paperweights, what are they? To me, as I've stated, they appear more like test pieces, Dino Martens or no Dino Martens.
Mine, at least, I know dates to at least the late 60s. It's been in the same home for that time. The others with black in the motif, I cannot speak for.
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I also think it rather odd that there is not a lot of reference to Dino Martens paperweights on the internet.
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A frustrating situation: I would have liked to see the pictures, but they aren't there - just the one on the site of svazzo who is really a good authority of Murano weights (from my experience).
Everyone is in quite an uproar - now the animosity has me quite piqued! Anyway to re-post the picture of the weight in question?
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Hi, as stated by others, posts are often viewed without replies being added because the viewer isn't sure, knows nothing,
needs to look up in a book etc. A lack of replies is not a snub or indication of ill will.
There have been posts sitting here for years unanswered until a member makes an ID.
Photobucket removes images automatically after a short while, hence the request that images be appended to the
thread for future viewers.
Sometimes a forum member will have an idea or opinion as to what something isn't, but that's not always helpful,
especially not early in a discussion.
Your paperweight does not share colorways with the other examples shown, and the canes were not completely encased.
This indicates to me a second, or an uncomplete, or a trainer.
The quality does not correspond to a big name maker/designer.
It may be Muranese, it may be Bohemian, it may be something else completely.
As to Dino Martens - if you are to trust eBay he has designed half the unsigned pieces of Murano glass available ;)
If there is no mention on the internet or in books of DM designing paperweights there might be a good reason.
Like his not designing paperweights in any meaningful numbers.
You mention you are new to paperweights - so am I - I have only collected for a few years and own/have owned only a few hundred.
On this site I am a rookie - a newbie - an amateur, compared to Frank, Kevin, Alan et al.
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A frustrating situation: I would have liked to see the pictures, but they aren't there - just the one on the site of svazzo who is really a good authority of Murano weights (from my experience).
Everyone is in quite an uproar - now the animosity has me quite piqued! Anyway to re-post the picture of the weight in question?
If you would like to see the PW, it is 130286979285 on eBay right now.
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Hi Interiorforms, and welcome to the board!
It sometimes can take years to identify a piece. On occasion I've had to wait until someone digs through some archive somewhere and unearths original documents, and then publishes a book! This is a very knowledgeable paperweights group and we newbies are very lucky they give their time to help us. Not answering your query within three days was in no way intended as an insult or snub - it's just that no-one recognised your piece. We've all got shelves of unidentified glass. Patience is a virtue, as they say. :)
As to your weight, there are many differences between yours and Javier's piece, but as a newbie you might not have recognised them. It might be better if someone other than me describes these, but just off the top of my head: Javier's piece has finer canes, better curves, a characteristic aventurine stripe, and a pontil on the top. It doesn't seem to have a clear cap the way yours does.
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I have sent a query to the seller of the weight in the "playwiffme" site that Interiorforms linked to earlier. I have asked for information about how we can be sure about the Martens attribution.
I can see that each of the three items so far covered in this thread have broad similarity in their construction. Unfortunately the one in the "Svazzo" site (gmb member Javier) seems to show only the underside (I presume) although it looks as though the top may be fully white - perhaps. The one in the "playwiffme" site shows a top view that has a good match "in form" to the one that Interiorforms has. But whether they are all from the same maker (or designer) is certainly open to further discussion.
That's one of the problems with apparently rare items - there is usually little documented information to confirm things and we are left only with basic comparisions between available images (or actual items for those of us lucky to handle such pieces).
Interiorforms - It would be very useful for future reference if your images could be reinstated to the board (or to GlassGallery). By having a reference thread with images we may be able to build up the evidence for others if people come across more similar looking items.
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These are new photos for the paperweight:
http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr236/interiorforms/pw01-1.jpg
http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr236/interiorforms/pw02-1.jpg
http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr236/interiorforms/pw03-1.jpg
http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr236/interiorforms/pw04.jpg
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Many thanks for those new photos.
May I have permission to copy them into the GlassGallery - where I will add your username as the owner of the images? I can then replace the Photobucket links with the GlassGallery ones and that will ensure we won't lose them.
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Sure, KevH, that will be OK. But I'm up against a general consensus with this board that Dino Martens did not design paperweight. Because of this it appears I have upset a few people here on the board, resulting in my Ebay listing to be shut down twice; the first was remedied and corrected as requested and re-listed. No problem. I suppose that wasn't enough; I suppose if one bitches long and loud enough about a listing on Ebay, no matter if they are right or wrong, one can have a listing removed. Whatever. I'm done with paperweights, glass chunks resembling paperweights, and any other clump of glass.
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I have been off-line 2 days with a power outage caused by a major storm here... so sort of missed this little storm. :o
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You mention you are new to paperweights - so am I - I have only collected for a few years and own/have owned only a few hundred.
On this site I am a rookie - a newbie - an amateur, compared to Frank, Kevin, Alan et al.
I've been collecting for about 20 years but I'm still rookie-ish because I didn't learn much about them (other than my favourite Scottish artists) until the last few years. This board had helped me immensely in learning about Muranese paperweights.
I have noticed that replies are sometimes very slow in coming but I know it's because people are either doing their homework or I've come up with a stumper. :)
Interior: Sorry you're done with chunks of glass. You've given up a fascinating and often puzzling study.