Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Murano & Italy Glass => Topic started by: David555 on September 15, 2005, 01:41:36 AM
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Hi
Three new buys - any help appreciated
This ruby basket has a lot of ware to foot rim and the Murano sticker, any idea of maker
http://hometown.aol.co.uk/blackcatgla/images/murano%20basket%20copy.jpg
This is a beautifully made piece with rolled twists making up a cylinder shape - blue with yellow sommerso halo - finished beautifully to top with a lot of age ware to base
http://hometown.aol.co.uk/blackcatgla/images/sommerso%20twist%20copy.jpg
Finally - this is not new again lot of tiny age ware scratches to base, may be Florence rather than Murano
http://hometown.aol.co.uk/blackcatgla/images/yellow%20bowl%20copy.jpg
Thanks
Adam D555 :twisted: :twisted:
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ruby basket
I've seen so many of these, unless some special feature I doubt they are attributable to maker.
cylinder shape
I have a feeling that this is not Murano. Pos Czech or "other"
Yellow Lidded dish
Yep Florentine - see Terry's (glasswizzard) thread on the main board titled "~Poss Stennett-Willson~" or similar .....from memory. Nice piece - I collect yellow glass - let me know when you sell please. Similar seen with Raymor or Rayware (get confused between these two...I wonder if any connection) labels.
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Thank you
Any more info on lidded bowl (will be listing soon)
Rayware / Raymore bit confused is that an importer of glass like G Hardy?
I can see the bowl may be Florence - any ID on maker
Adam D555 :twisted: :twisted:
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Rayware / Raymore
OK Rayware is probably the British side of the business or a separate British firm as Terry has never heard of them and I'm drinking out of one of their mugs and a very nice stylish one it is too.
Type Raymor (ooops no e) into Ebay.com and you will see all sorts of pottery and china as well as glass and other stuff.
I call these type of firms "re-labelers". They source worldwide then relabel or badge as their own most often hiding the true maker and country of origin. Just occaisionally you will find a "made in xxxx " sticker too so country in this case is known. But I did see one of their badged items which had a shpping label on the box "Kastrup" ...a Per Lutken designed opalescent shell bowl!
So they dealt in quality stuff and I believe even commissioned designs themselves. In the US Raymor has become a "brand" in itself eventhough I don't think they actually make anything.
Any more info on lidded bowl (will be listing soon)...........I can see the bowl may be Florence - any ID on maker
Er yeah I have all the secrets which I shall tell after the auction ends :twisted: I even know the designer :twisted: (if there was a designer for this very simple and modest item that is !!! ) no actually it was Fredde wot made it after hours in AA's shed. ...he used to design for Woolies but got made redundant .....make sure you spell Fredde correctly
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Rayware group has a website - they are the parent company of Ravenhead, Dema, Arthur Wood, amongst others: http://www.rayware.co.uk/
No idea on Raymor though.
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Peter you tease me :cry: :cry: :!: :!:
Fredde Wot - Woolies
I will have to list as a attributed to a 'Raymore Import' of a Florentine maker unknown, date unknown - that will get them excited :? :?
Talking about glass from Florence - I will also be putting two pieces on as follows
Interglass Cabinet Goblet with amazing mottled blue like Monart and gold leaf decoration which has been hand engraved all around in swags and scrolls (classical style) not that old and has label 'Interglass - hand made in Italy - 24kt Gold - King of Florence by Interglass of Italy - Lead Crystal 24% P.po' Phew
http://hometown.aol.co.uk/blackcatgla/images/interglass.jpg
Lidded Bowl that seems older from ware (that does not detract) - deep green body with lots of raised deep rose gold gilding - has amazing detail with an art nouveau twist - applied flowers to lid wich are hand painted along with enamel foliage - is a tiny chip to one flower petal, but it is a lovely thing and in fantastic condition (7" high) for what it cost me - I am sure there is a thread about this on the board??
emm http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,1565.0.html - Royo or Moser
I think this may be Royo... ahh who knows :shock: :shock:
http://hometown.aol.co.uk/blackcatgla/images/florence.jpg
Adam D (for deeply) 666 :twisted: :twisted:
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I think this may be Royo... ahh who knows :shock: :shock:
http://hometown.aol.co.uk/blackcatgla/images/florence.jpg
Adam D555 :twisted: :twisted:
I knows!
NO WAY this is Royo. It is what we know as "cold enamel and gold" or "Terzo Fuoco". Your example was made in the Czech Republic (by far the largest producer, check the Egermann site) or in Serbia; Italian examples tend to be more imaginative in their decoration - but it is still regarded a far cry from Art Glass. I once asked about (cousin) Francesco Barbini, who runs the largest decorating shop in Italy for Terzo Fuoco glass to Mrs. Barbini and If Looks Could Kill!
Royo is high gloss hot enamel in a most specific Mudejar inspired decoration- Terzo Fuoco is matt, floral and fired at a low temperature.
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My Royo vase:
http://tinypic.com/bgwbuo.jpg
I've got a basket now too! :D :D
I've been trying to work out if it's a good time to sell them both... :roll: Whenever I sell anything, it seems it's always the WRONG time, and I sell for very little. :cry: :cry:
Now...whether to put 'Moser' in the auction title... :P :P :P
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Well I did say 'who knows' - I thought Czech but was just messing about with the Royo thing
If looks could kill :shock: :shock: - I can see where the cold painting is overlapping the gold but it is a nice object with art nouveau leanings and very well made for what it is, it's hardly Woolies or Ikea
I think it is an older piece, if not 1900 then 1950s copy - the ware is in all the right places and it is all hand made, hand gilded and painted, I can see the hand blown bowl and the twisted stem and foot applied - also the raised gilding is not uniform, I can see it is hand trailed with a blob at the end of each whiplash, the applied finial is uneven showing hand made application
At £3.00 I am not complaining and I am sure it will be appreciated by someone when I sell it at a low start - it photographs beautifully
You are right about the Royo decoration it is very 'Italian' :wink:
I am sure my bowl sits fine as a cabinet piece in the nouveau style
What about the Interglass piece - I regard that less than the bowl yet it is Italian and very similar in decoration - they must still be going and worth a brief inclusion in a glass fact file new addition :D LOL
Egermann sits well for me - its the colors and the applied flowers I see on the website pictures - I do think it is an older piece though, the company has been making copies of originals for ages it seems
http://www.crystal-treasury.com/store/bohemiacrystal/IndexRam.asp?Odkaz=*&LevaLista=Glass_Crystal&Line=High_enamel (http://www.crystal-treasury.com/store/bohemiacrystal/IndexRam.asp?Odkaz=*&LevaLista=Glass_Crystal&Line=High_enamel)
http://www.crystal-treasury.com/store/bohemiacrystal/IndexRam.asp?Odkaz=*&LevaLista=Glass_Crystal&Line=High_enamel (http://www.crystal-treasury.com/store/bohemiacrystal/IndexRam.asp?Odkaz=*&LevaLista=Glass_Crystal&Line=High_enamel)
The newer items also seem hand made to a point but with applied decoration in very uniform style - I also can't find my item shape, nothing as nouveau as it
I wish it was brand new - the prices they are looking for $100 for a 4" bowl
Anyway I am going off topic so I if I want to talk further I will start a thread in 'Glass'
Adam D555 :twisted: :twisted:
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I side with Mrs. Barbini who could not see a single redeeming feature in her cousin's handiwork - and I can assure you the Czech bling bling is even less inspired than the Italian bling bling.
Please be re-informed that there is nothing Italian about Royo, neither in design nor in decoration.
Re Interglass: if it is not in the a-z book it is a retailer, relabeler or decorator shop.
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Yeah my mistake - Royo - Spanish (note I am not stupid - I said it looked very Italian, and I am allowed my opinion)
Royo: Mark found on enamelled and gilded glass, allegedly a Moser mark used in Spain, but this cannot be confirmed
Bling!!
Moser like other Czech glass of the 1900 - 30s was 'Bling' - my humble piece is just a quite well made copy c1950-80 - if by Bling you mean OTT (over the top) gilt and applied decoration, you seem be criticising the original article as well by association?
http://www.great-glass.co.uk/library/lib1b.htm now this is bling (taking your suggestion on board) even my modest piece can't compete with
And my bowl is just a time honoured Czech imitation (If I am to believe your previous posts - I have still to investigate myself - I have lots of other books and contacts)
Czech bling bling is even less inspired than the Italian bling bling
Are you dismissing a whole genre, period and time honoured production in Bohemia not to mention Italy
What happened to objectivity - I don't like overtly gilded and gilded items but I can see the workmanship and respect that
I like minimalist objects and even the Royo I have seen is not to my tastes, but I am not dissing them especially as a researcher I know thinks it may have been a Moser label used in Spain (how deliciously ironic)
Re Interglass: if it is not in the a-z book it is a retailer, relabeler (sic) or decorator shop
I may agree, but a little book like the A-Z does not cover every glass firm - it would be arrogant for any author to think it does so, we are constantly finding new items from the deepest past that it does not contain - I always enjoy your queries on items you don't know anything about Ivo
INTERGLASS http://www.raisem.co.ae/aars2.htm
The trademark INTERGLASS (Original Florence Style), has been founded with the union of some artisans of Interglass family in 1982. The product of this company is addressed to the International and local clients with an expert and exigent taste, who are always looking for exclusive and well-finished articles. Articles are present in the most well-known international catalogues and in the exclusive worldwide shops. INTERGLASS takes care directly of the blown glass and crystal production, following the engraving through pantographs and the final embroidery with brush using gold and silver
Adam D555 :twisted: :twisted:
Anyway Ivo I bet you wear D&G and huge gold chains - Luvin it!!!
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I think it is an older piece, if not 1900 then 1950s copy - the ware is in all the right places and it is all hand made, hand gilded and painted, I can see the hand blown bowl and the twisted stem and foot applied - also the raised gilding is not uniform, I can see it is hand trailed with a blob at the end of each whiplash, the applied finial is uneven showing hand made application
Adam, I saw items like this being hand-decorated in Murano a couple of years ago. I've even got a video of it being done! I bought one very similar to yours in brown : http://tinypic.com/dy0i6e.jpg They were stacked in rows on a production line and two decorators were whizzing through the 'hand painting' at lightning speed.
This is the label on it : http://tinypic.com/dy0kzd.jpg
They're quite pretty, but not 'real' Murano IMHO :oops: I'm inclined to agree with Mrs Barbini - & Ivo - on this one :roll:
Leni
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Thanks Leni
You are right they are quite pretty (no more than that) and as I said for a few quid you can't go wrong - seems the style goes back a bit though, I mean yours is Italian and new no doubt, but they were making them in the 20s, & 50s as well
It is what we know as "cold enamel and gold" or "Terzo Fuoco". Your example was made in the Czech Republic (by far the largest producer, check the Egermann site) or in Serbia; Italian examples tend to be more imaginative in their decoration
Glad yours is Italian at least that puts it back on topic again - you say your bit is like mine well as you can see from above quote Ivo is certain that can't be so :wink: :wink:
So I agree its not real Murano (well some of the older stuff is - I mean I must get you a picture of a hand gilded cold painted Italian piece c1900's), I never said it was nor did Ivo, he is saying the bowl is Czech - the whole Barbini thing is a bit of a non sequitur really)
I actually agree with him on point of origin - my own research tells me it's cold painted and Czech and as he says probably Egermann c1980s looking at both the style and ware to gilding - I have looked around and seen similar pieces sold by a company that reproduces the old designs for a new market
It’s not cheap - have a look at the sites - OK flashy but that's Mrs Barbini's opinion and ..... :evil: :evil:
What are your feelings about Czech bling bling being as cheap and nasty as Italian bling - I mean in history
I admit my bit is not truly old (I never said it was), but by association (my piece is a loose Czech copy) he :evil: seems to be really digging at Moser and other overtly gilded glass that are part a luscious glass history
Also - he was wrong about Interglass - they are a company in Florence who make and decorate their own glass - I enquired and like it or not, again their stuff is not cheap
You know I bought this stuff to sell on eBay and posted it for comparison sake not to have it crucified, certainly not in competition with Royo, again I would sell that stuff if I came upon it but it just does not suite my tastes collection wise, too ... well flashy, after all an A to Z guide says it was probably the Moser label in Spain LOL - Is it only me ... cos I am British that sees the irony in that, in this thread
When looking for glass from Florence I am more interested in the modernist 1950s 60s stuff - like my architectural blue vase and the stuff Wayne Husted did for Stelvia
I thank you again - you are always so helpful and kind (I mean that)
On a separate point - this is the 'Murano Glass Society' but I feel it is the right place to talk about all Italian glass - the links between Florence and Murano seem evident enough to me - what do others think
btw - jus cos I'm just here doesn't mean I have not been around - sparkin yet (sic) :twisted: :twisted: D555 & Adam
LOL (in a nice way)
little bit of Czech (attributed) bling I sold for a nice little profit last month and has made customer very happy
(http://publish.hometown.aol.co.uk/blackcatgla/images/moser%202%20copy.jpg)
Anyway - this is gone and dusted - see you all in other posts
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seems the style goes back a bit though, I mean yours is Italian and new no doubt, but they were making them in the 20s, & 50s as well
Yes, my mother-in-law has a decanter and glasses set with identical decoration which was bought in Venice in the 1940's!
Glad yours is Italian at least that puts it back on topic again - you say your bit is like mine well as you can see from above quote Ivo is certain that can't be so :wink: :wink:
Well, just because they were decorated in Murano doesn't mean they weren't made elsewhere, you know! :wink: :lol:
(And I just want to put on record that, while I know nobody's perfect, there are few people whose judgement I hold in higher regard than Ivo Haanstra! :shock: :oops: :roll: )
As for your question about whether this board should talk about 'just' Murano or any Italian glass - I agree it's an interesting point and I'd like to hear what other posters think. It's certainly a blurry area :?
And say something was made elsewhere, but sold in Murano - a 'Chinese' paperweight, for example, or a Czech vase decorated in Murano and bearing a 'Venetian Glass' sticker :P :twisted: Where should those things be discussed, eh? :wink:
Leni