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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: tropdevin on February 13, 2009, 03:40:44 PM

Title: Ysart thistle paperweight
Post by: tropdevin on February 13, 2009, 03:40:44 PM
***

I suspect that this paperweight (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-53481-19255-0/1?type=2&campid=5335820906&toolid=10001&customid=&ext=200309105006&item=200309105006) is a Paul Ysart piece. Anyone agree (or disagree)?

Alan
Title: Re: Ysart thistle paperweight
Post by: KevinH on February 13, 2009, 04:36:46 PM
I disagree.
Title: Re: Ysart thistle paperweight
Post by: tropdevin on February 13, 2009, 04:51:47 PM


Go on then Kev....who do you think did make it?

Alan
Title: Re: Ysart thistle paperweight
Post by: KevinH on February 13, 2009, 04:57:29 PM
Too early in the game to say ...  ;D
Title: Re: Ysart thistle paperweight
Post by: tropdevin on February 13, 2009, 05:00:52 PM
Fair enough!

But when I win it for £10.00 ( I couldn't find an 'In my dreams' smiley ) I shall offer it to you at an Ysart price!  >:D

Alan
Title: Re: Ysart thistle paperweight
Post by: w84it on February 13, 2009, 05:02:47 PM
Hi All.

Do you not think it looks a bit 'naive' for Paul?   The thistle leaves look a little less than neat and tidy.  And the ring of canes around the edge are not all accurately placed.   

But maybe an early piece?   And if not Paul, who?   Could it be by John Deacons?  The style of the leaves looks more like some of his.

I don't like the look of those cracks, despite what the seller says!


Cheers,

Keith
Title: Re: Ysart thistle paperweight
Post by: KevinH on February 13, 2009, 05:27:29 PM
Quote
Could it be by John Deacons?
No.

Quote
I don't like the look of those cracks
Me neither! The seller is possibly inexperienced with cracks and bruises in paperweights, but there seems to me to be a full crack across the base, a large crack to one side causing a typical "double view" of the canes and probably at least two bruises with interconnecting cracks further around the side.

When I win it for £11 I'll check out thoroughly. 8)
Title: Re: Ysart thistle paperweight
Post by: w84it on February 19, 2009, 07:40:53 PM
Cracks or no cracks, it fetched £42.   Anyone we know?  It would be interesting if someone could have a closer look.
Title: Re: Ysart thistle paperweight
Post by: tropdevin on February 19, 2009, 09:47:01 PM
I know the winner, but I'm not sure whether he posts on this board. I'll ask him about the weight in due course, as it might make a short article for the PCC Newsletter.

Alan
Title: Re: Ysart thistle paperweight
Post by: cfosterk on March 20, 2009, 12:49:38 AM
Interesting copy. The garland looks to be formed with caithness canes. You need Roy to take a close look.....

Very naive thistle. Not sure you could call it a tribute to Paul Ysarts thistle weights though.....the maker seems to have limited lampworking and annealing skills......

I wonder is this is a prototype and a new wave of fakes is iminent??   
Title: Re: Ysart thistle paperweight
Post by: KevinH on March 21, 2009, 01:02:11 AM
Based on what I believe ...

Quote
Interesting copy.
Not really a copy of anything.
Quote
The garland looks to be formed with caithness canes.
They are "Ysart" canes.
Quote
Not sure you could call it a tribute to Paul Ysarts thistle weights though
Definitely not trying to be a tribute to Paul Ysart.
Quote
....the maker seems to have limited lampworking and annealing skills......
The maker had very good skills but was not into the sort of quality control that Paul Ysart was known for.
Quote
I wonder is this is a prototype and a new wave of fakes is iminent??
Absolutely not a "prototype" and neither is it an indicator of a new wave of fakes.

Come on folks, it ought to be fairly easy to guess the maker. But I admit that I only know of two or three similarly formed thistle weights, and perhaps not too many people will have seen others like these.
Title: Re: Ysart thistle paperweight
Post by: Lustrousstone on March 21, 2009, 01:36:14 PM
Salvador?
Title: Re: Ysart thistle paperweight
Post by: incazzatonero on March 21, 2009, 02:56:31 PM
I do not know exactly why, but I am thinking: could it be William Manson in the early 1970s.
The canes in the circle remind me on Caithsness CT-60 of him.  :huh: :huh: :huh:
Did they not work together at Caithness for a short time? :huh:
For Salvador did not speak the canes in the outer circle.
But I know nothing.
Title: Re: Ysart thistle paperweight
Post by: cfosterk on March 21, 2009, 06:04:00 PM
I think I've said something to upset Kevin - do you usually demolish someones late-night ramblings?

The language was lazy and some of your comments merited, but for goodness sakes, lighten up!!!

Just as well I'm not a skrinking violet!!

I will not be responding with a point-by-point rebuttal even though some of your comments appear questionable...
Title: Re: Ysart thistle paperweight
Post by: KevinH on March 21, 2009, 11:57:26 PM
My comments were not intended as a "demolition" of any sort. Sorry if my method of commenting seemed in any way disrespectful, but they were just a set of basic points, in context, that give my views.

If anyone feels my points are questionable in any way, please discuss openly with alternatives.

Christine (Lustrousstone) said, "Salvador?"
Correct, that is who I believe made the weight.
Title: Re: Ysart thistle paperweight
Post by: incazzatonero on March 22, 2009, 01:20:55 AM
Wow!
For me it is incredible!
Are you sure Kevin!??
Regards
Title: Re: Ysart thistle paperweight
Post by: cfosterk on March 22, 2009, 08:08:05 PM
salvador......well, now you mention it, it does seem plausible!!!

As a new-ish collector i'm afraid I'm very ignorant of salvadors work. I have a concentric and a butterfly concentric but thats it....

i tend to stick to pauls work - got one in a mixed lot yesterday. Please see the link for the st louis 'carp' sulphide which I'm very pleased with!! Dad collected everything and bought a number of pieces direct from mr deacons....so my collection such that it is remains rather ecclectic....
Title: Re: Ysart thistle paperweight
Post by: KevinH on March 23, 2009, 12:20:19 PM
Lothar said: "Are you sure Kevin!??"

Yes, I am sure in what I believe, based on the visual evidence and other broadly similar items I have seen before. The quality of the Thistle weight is not what I would expect from Paul Ysart. The cane in the garland is known in several items from the early Vasart period and may also have been used in the late Vasart and Strathearn periods, too. I do not recall seeing that cane in Paul Ysart's work. From an enlarged copy of the eBay photo showing the pontil mark, the stress lines are far more consistent with the work of Salvador than with Paul, but it's not always easy to understand or see what the difference is.

Although it needs a UV check to be sure that an item like this was not, in fact, made in the later Vasart or Strathearn years (or maybe even later?), I would be surprised if was a later item.

As a general point:
It is known that Salvador Ysart was not keen on paperweights when Paul started to be very interested in them. But there are enough examples of weights and bottles from the early Vasart years to show that those items were necessary to help pay the bills and make a bit of profit. I think it is quite reasonable to believe that the better quality items, and the more unusual ones, from those years were the work of Salvador. Many items show features (such as the form of stress lines around the pontil mark) that tie up with other work attributed to Salvador (for example, the 3D butterfly weights).