Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Murano & Italy Glass => Topic started by: vintage treasures on March 01, 2009, 04:38:49 AM
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http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x299/vfrankens/?action=view¤t=mbowlpeach.jpg
http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x299/vfrankens/?action=view¤t=mbowlpeach2.jpg
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There is some confusion about the term, but I call the thin veil of tiny bubbbles sfumato. VAMSA might be a possibility?
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Shannon, sfumato by definition is the shading of one color to another with no distinct line between them.
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I know that's the definition given in some of the Pina books, but I've seen it used often to describe the smokey veil of bubbles found in some VAMSA pieces. So it appears there's some discrepancy.
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Of course I'm talking about the term as it applies to glass, not painting.
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I did a lot more reading on sfumato. Sfumato means smoky. In glass and painting it is a technique where sharp boundaries are softened by blending or overlaying with something. That something can probably be bubbles, gold, or smoky glass. I am going to have to broaden my idea of what sfumato is. I had always wondered at why the Barbini smoky ducks were called sfumato. I figured they were, but I couldn't fit the design into my narrow definition.
This is nice to figure out. I had been reluctant to use the word because there was so much confusion with it. I guess there wasn't really confusion, only not recognizing all the ways a sfumato effect could be attained.
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A plea for help! Sorry to be dense, but I can't see how this ashtray would be called sfumato. I thought the shading from one colour or shade to another was created by the addition or use of particles of a certain type of glass. I'm not sure I see how this would be achieved by bubbles, where it would pulegoso or bollicine. I can see the big bubbles in the ashtray, but am I failing to see smaller ones? I've also been looking through my bookmarks for a site that has an ashtray like this from Czechoslovakia, but I haven't found it---yet. Anita and Shannon, do you see the other pieces from this person being Murano, particularly the piece with the stretched bubbles?
David
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I don't see the sfumato in this ashtray either, David. I'm afraid the thread turned into a discussion about what sfumato is -- mea culpa -- and got away from the original ashtray. To my eyes the haziness of the glass looks like light opalescence, but I'm not sure what I am seeing in the photos.
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Anita: Thanks for the clarification. I haven't found the link I'm looking for, but I did come across picture of an ashtray that explains why I hesitate to call the piece originally shown in the thread automatically Murano, even generic.
Davd
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I think what appears to be light opalescence as actually a thin veil of super tiny bubbles. I've seen this type of ashtray before, and also the matching lighter, and I do believe they are Murano. There are a couple of similar ones at the Svazzo site listed under Barbini. I do also think the opalescent one with stretched bubbles is Murano.
Sfumato is a confusing term when applied to glass! What many people call sfumato, I would call polveri. But I've seen the term sfumato used over and over to describe this particular bubble effect, which is completely different from polveri.
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Shannon, I think you're most likely right about he original ashtray being Murano. You're reference to polveri reinforced my conclusion that I'm confused about sfumato. Mentioning polveri reminded me that polveri is Italian for particle, a term that was crucial to my definition of sfumato. So I've just spent a few minutes looking through my Murano books and resources for definitions of polvreri and sfumato. I could only found three definitions of sfumato, all from Pina, and none of polveri. That included looking at the definitions provided on the Losch and the Barovier and Toso sites, both of which are fairly inclusive. To me, this suggests that the techniques are not very important to the top level of Murano glass. It also means that my understanding is operational rather than definitional, that is, Ive seen pieces called sfumato and polveri and recognize them as such, but I couldn't define each term, nor describe the technique used to create the effect.
My take is that both polveri and sfumato involve some gradual change from one colour or shade to another. Your definition seems to rely more on the veil mentioned by Pina, which as you suggest, could consist of a layer of fine bubbles. Would this mean that every pulegoso piece with colour in it is also sfumato?
Interesting where even fairly mundane pieces can take us. Or is just me?
David
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If I understand right, A. Seguso's polveri pieces are sfumato. In this case the color powders (polveri) are overlaid with gold so that the three blend together (sfumato).
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I can see the big bubbles in the ashtray, but am I failing to see smaller ones?
I don't see the sfumato in this ashtray either, David.
I think what appears to be light opalescence as actually a thin veil of super tiny bubbles.
I know nothing about this subject but I can confirm that when the image from the first url posted by Vinatge Treasures is enlarged to 400% it becomes clear that the light-coloured, "smokey" or "opalescent-type" part of the ashtray does seem to have a mass of fine bubbles. This is seen most clearly in the lower right section of the image between the orange and green and is very apparent where the "grey" part overlaps the green in the photo.
Does that help?