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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Unresolved Glass Queries => Topic started by: azelismia on March 20, 2009, 08:09:54 PM
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I got this vase recently and I am not sure who made it. I am thinking moser as it looks to be me to be from the 30's 40's and is in color change glass and looks bohemian, but of course, there may be other factors I am overlooking? Opinions? it seems very high quality. the ribbing is cut as are the cut out's on the foot of the base. the base has been cut polished to absolute flatness. the other odd quality that it displays is that under a blacklight it turns the most astonishing shade of red. the figure is a nude woman on a horse with stylised clouds and stars all around the vase.
http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/mar15/
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/mar15/P1040754.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/mar15/P1040740.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/mar15/P1040763.jpg)
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Hi
Nude on horseback -is not a Moser image I've seen before -is it metal surface or colour enamel? (if it's metal finish then its not 1930s Moser)
Blank isn't familar either but Moser whas much more divers here so possibly still could be.
I don't think it's Moser at all, but you might need to consider the possibility of 'Moser' blank but decorated by another 'house' -quite usual
hope this helps
Mike
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it's a gold leaf type decoration with a white enamel decoration around the base. I could buy moser blank decorated by another glass house. If you think it's likely not to be moser can you think of any other companies who did alexandrite in that time period? I am pretty sure it's not american. My other alexandrite piece is sevres, it isn't the exact same color as that piece. there is so little information out there about this type of glass it's kind of hard to pin down the usual suspects.
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I would have guessed American based on style, colour and decoration. And never say never - but it looks quite unlikely to be by Moser.
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We'll as I stated in my first post. I was far from absolutely convinced it was Moser but I am pretty convinced it's not American. the decoration is very far from typical American decoration. I've never seen a piece from America with the white enamel type scroll and the nude on a horse is pretty far from the typical american prudism of the time. I also haven't seen notches cut out of american glass the way they've been cut out here. Especially from the companies who were making this type of glass at the time. as you say, never say never, but I am pretty sure it's European.
also the color isn't really true in this pics. it's very hard to capture.
Here's another pic showing the detail a little better but the color still isn't true.
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/march%2022/P1040782.jpg)
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This might sound daft but I have a cigarette box with an intaglio design on the lid and the lady and the horse on it might be twins to your lady and horse. I've never found who made it but assume it is Czechoslovakian. It's in blue uranium glass and not great quality. I suppose the question is, is she some kind of legendary or mythical Czech (or elsewhere) figure, discounting our Lady Godiva?
I will post a picture tomorrow.
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doesn't sound daft at all. with the stylised clouds and stars behind her I was figuring she must be some sort of goddess type of figure. I wasn't sure WHO... but it's got the look of something that's meant to represent a mythical figure. Lady godiva was who was put out there from who I bought it from, but I've always seen her represented with long flowing hair. this woman has more roman hair. it looks like she's supposed to be holding something in her upraised hand, but I am not sure what. it's not there now. if not I have no idea what she's doing with that hand.
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Well here she is; no clouds or stars, nor outstretched arm, but then there isn't room for that.
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As the inventors of neodymium glass (company name Alexandrit) it's tempting to attribute all pre-war neo production to them but having discounted that option then Riedel would seem to be a good fit, for both pieces. They were a large manufacturer with several factories known to supply blanks to finishing shops and had an excellent reputation for colour experimentation.
The design and style of Christine's piece looks like it could come from the stables of Hoffman or Schlevogt, both of whom had their items made at Desna near Gablonz (Jablonec) which was the location of the main Reidel factory. As inventors of green and yellow-green uranium glass it's no stretch to think that Riedel could have come up with a blue uranium colour, but of course needs researching.
The pale colour of the vase would tend to support dating as pre-war and towards the earlier 1920's when the price of the raw "rare earth" element was at it's highest. As far as I understand it the fashion for Neodymium glass faded quite quickly going into the late 20's and 30's and was revived only much later (c 1970's).
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interesting theory. I could buy Reidel, they also finished their pieces with the flat base as this is finished. I think it's probably the best theory so far. I thought Harrach was the glass house who invented uranium glass though?
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Riedel is as unlikely as Moser for both the ashtray and the vase. The ashtray may be by one of the many French companies who used this colour palette (Portieux, Duralex, VMC) in the 50s and 60s. Portieux definitely used blue Uranium and Neodymium in their production scheme. Neodymium was (and is) used by dozens if not hundreds of companies as an inexpensive way of colouring glassware and give it an interesting twist. And the largest ashtray producer, Andrieux, routinely ground all bottoms. So unless a specific model turns up in a catalogue, I advise all options to stay open.
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moser had a patent on neodyium back then and It wasn't a cheap option from what I've read. it was liscenced to fostoria in the us and they were the first other than moser to do neodymium glass. From what I read very few companies made this early on.
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The ashtray is actually the lid of a cigarette box. The lid is ground and polished top and bottom, and the box is ground and polished on the bottom. The grinding is actually the best bit quality wise. The glass has inclusions and a slight orange peel surface. Excuse hasty picture
As to who "invented" uranium glass, it appears to one of those debatable points. Some claim the Romans used it. it does appear that uranium glass appeared in the repertoires of several manufacturers in the 1830s though.
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This seems to be an utterly confused discussion. There is no indication that the vase that started this discussion is, in fact, from the 1930s, or that the ash tray which turns out to be a cigarette box is from that age. The introduction of Uranium has been pretty well documented (Riedel, 1830 - but that is an entirely different discussion) and so has the introduction of Neodymium (Moser, 1928). In both cases the technique spread to many other companies within months, not years, and any assumption on who produced or did not produce colours or variations thereof will have to remain just that. We have a starting date, so we know it cannot have been produced before that time. But that is all it proves.
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It is confused now, my point was merely that the two ladies with their horses were remarkably similar, given the different mediums, and might have a country or place in common.
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In the US its reported that Steuben first used neodymium in 1928 followed by Morgantown January 1930, Heisey June 1930, Fostoria 1931 (no month given), Cambridge November 1931, Tiffin 1951 & Fenton in the 70's plus probably a few others in the US I've missed. I agree with Ivo....so many companies produced this color that you have to consider multiple (to say the least) possibilities & you may never be able to pin it down so just enjoy it for what it is.
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as for my .02usd i would agree with a 1930s possibly 1940s dating outside the usa the comment about american prudishness notwithstanding :o ....steuben would have produced something with this style motif but would have been of much higher quality - no offense intended of the glass....and i agree with whoever said that this does not have moser sensibilities....
i couln't begin to identify coo or maker but that wreath says english to me but it seems the best speculaton is continental.....
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Tony, this vase is top notch quality. it is high enough quality to be steuben imho, but isn't stylistically like steuben. I own a few steuben pieces of non aurene glass from this era and I'd go so far as to say this is actually higher quality glass than those pieces.
What about it strikes you as not high enough quality to be steuben?