Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Paul S. on March 23, 2009, 07:39:51 PM
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hello GMB - my first time on screen, so apologies if I don't get it right, and grateful for any help re the attached.
the woman at the boot sale said this was Whitefriars, and although I was sceptical, like all collectors I didn't dare leave it and then get home and find she was right, so for nine quid I bought the vase and thats when it goes a bit wrong. I removed the hardened gloss paint and other crud and then discovered what I assumed was limescale up two thirds of the inside. After another nine quids worth of Hagesan Blue and Kilrock K I was no further forward and still had a matt interior, so maybe the glass has become etched for a couple of microns depth. Does anyone recogise the item, know the date or factory. Presumably it isn't Whitefriars - can't see it in Lesley Jackson' book.
Specification is: trumpet flared top - colour pale gold/amber - height 23cms. - dia. at top 21 cms. - and 12 cms. at the base - rising spirals of air bubbles which elongate towards top, and a good quality 6 cm. polished pontil mark. There is considerable wear at the base indicating it wasn't made yesterday (unlike me probably). It has a good 'ring'.
many thanks. Paul.
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I'm sure this is Whitefriars produced 1940s-50s
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thank you for very quick response - and of couse Im very pleased if it is Whitefriars.
do you think a professional acid treatment wud remove the limescale - or is the piece better left as is.
cheers Paul S.
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The colour looks good for being Whitefriars, William Wilson I think, but I think it probably is limescale, I have had several items of this colour and they have always been clear. Pip on the board gave me a good tip, pop in a couple of denture cleaning tablets and fill with warm water this can remove the limescale. I have tried this and it always seems to work. Sue.
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Paul, Have you tried posting it on the Whitefriars site? Sue.
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These are always coming up on ebay as Whitefriars, but I have never found this shape in the catalogues and the Amber colour is not quite right to my mind. I think they are either Webb or Stevens and Williams, but by all means put it on the IS IT section of www.whitefriars.com, someone may have seen one at some time. Emmi
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thanks Sue and Emmi - appreciate the suggestions. However, having used the Kilrock K, and Hagesan, without any improvement in the matt surface, I'm not very hopeful of a false teeth cleaner. However, I will get around to trying it at some point but I will definitely put a picture on the Whitefriars site.
thanks again. Paul S.
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Sue - just to say that I have now posted a pic. on the Whitefriars site - so fingers crossed.
thanks again. Paul S.
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thanks Sue and Emmi - appreciate the suggestions. However, having used the Kilrock K, and Hagesan, without any improvement in the matt surface, I'm not very hopeful of a false teeth cleaner. However, I will get around to trying it at some point but I will definitely put a picture on the Whitefriars site.
thanks again. Paul S.
It sounds like you may have some sick glass that was covered when you bought it. I've had some success with Lime-away OR toilet bowl cleaner -- the type that clings to the sides. I have a feeling from what you describe that chemicals may not help remove the problem. Many pieces would have to be repolished, but most things are not worth the expense. It is a nice vase, nonetheless.
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I am sure it isnt W/Fs but one of the other British firms S&W Stuart or Webb . jp :mus:
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Hi,
I am with John..................... Not Whitefriars sadly, but easily mistaken.
Regards, Patrick.
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If its not Whitefriars its always safe to say Webb or Stuart. If its Webb I'll date it to 1930s, Whitefriars had tend to copy Webb and didn't have any real individuality until the trippy 60s.
This is still a quality vase and the only reason that this vase MAY not be as valuable as Whitefriars is because the designer is unknown. I would watch ebay and see how much a similar whitefriars vase sells for, then list it as buy it now (make Offer) for roughly £10.00 more and I bet you will sell it for roughly the same price. This is based on both pieces being in excellent condition.
Cheers
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Paul, if you would like to have your vase professionally tumbled, I have the name of someone who will do it for you, but it probably won't be cheap. Email me :)
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,25628.msg141613.html#msg141613
This topic split now. This thread is only for suggestions about the limescale problem now. :) :)
Thank you. :)
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Limescale can be removed using commercially available products for cleaning coffee makers (Lidl's own brand will do just fine). Bio deposit can be removed using chorine bleach. If you still have cloudiness in your vase after trying the above easy options, then your glass has water damage: water containing acid has eaten into the glass surface and no amount of chemicals will deal with that - certainly not agressive toilet cleaners which are based on caustic soda. You risk damaging the vase even further. There is no alternative but to have them tumbled. This is an expensive option whereby the vessel is filled with abrasive powders, copper pellets and washing up liquid, immobilised in a cylinder which is machine rotated for 3 days or longer. (in some cases it can take a full week).
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Limescale can be removed using commercially available products for cleaning coffee makers (Lidl's own brand will do just fine). Bio deposit can be removed using chorine bleach. If you still have cloudiness in your vase after trying the above easy options, then your glass has water damage: water containing acid has eaten into the glass surface and no amount of chemicals will deal with that - certainly not agressive toilet cleaners which are based on caustic soda...
Thanks for pointing this out, Ivo. I was a bit non-specific when I mentioned toilet bowl cleaners. I was referring to the brands, e.g. Clorox toilet bowl cleaner, that clean using gentler ingredients such as bleach. The ones using soda definitely should be avoided.
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I have had some success removing water marks by polishing them out with a portable dentists drill with a felt pad fitted and using cerium powder (very fine abrasive) made into a paste with water. It can take a few cycles of polishing, cleaning and inspection and I would not attempt any piece of glass that is remotely delicate but I have had excellent results. The business end of the dentists drill is small enough to get into the necks of most items and I pad the handle so that no chips are caused by knocking.
Apparently light scratches on the outside of items can be polished too but I have not tried that as me and my kitchen would be splattered with cerium goo.
A handy tip for drying the inside of hard to reach glass items is to first drip dry and then pump air in using a fish tank air pump (with air tube at far end of bottle/vase). Thirty minutes normally does the trick and no bits of lint left inside.
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my sincere thanks to everone for their input on this one. I feel humbled in the presence of so much original thinking, although didn't realise it wud cause so much disagreement!
Surprised no one else mentioned Kilrok K - I had spoken to the makers and they swore blind this wud do the trick. However, conclusion must be of course that the glass has become etched, and tumbling is now the only way out - although don't think I will go down that road. The piece looks o.k. in the main.
I had also thought of either cerium/tin oxide or Linde A (which are of course fine powders used in tumbling stones) on a mop fitted onto a flexible drive off a mains drill - so may try that when I don't have anything else to do one day. Do you think I shud take it back to the boot sales and get a refund!!!
I wouldn't sell the vase tho - and although I don't normally collect contemporary pieces, it will sit alongs side my other boot sale Tricorn vases and ashrays. The problem with being a collector is that its usually impossible to part with anything - obsession and passion are terrible neuroses - they clutter the house and tend to make you bankrupt. I'm more of a collector of C19 decorative and pressed (plus some Uranium) - they are a bit easier to I.D.
Anyway, I have a few more boot sale and charity shop items I need to I.D. - and I will pick something a little less contenious next time. thanks again. Paul.
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If you are using commercially available products such as chlorine bleach I would recommend you wear a dust mask gloves and safety glasses which will cost about a lady Godiva, thats about a fiver.
The safest product to use and the oldest trick in the book is Brasso metal polish, as long as your hand can get at the affected area to give a good old polish ;D.
I've used this a couple of times on cloudy drinking glasses with excellent results.
Nice one
Sean
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thanks for the tips Sean - although I probably wouldn't touch the chlorine bleach.
what am I supposed to use to rub the brasso on with (not wire wool surely)??
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Hi Paul
No, wire wool would cause damage, use a soft cloth.
Good luck
Sean
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Do you think I shud take it back to the boot sales and get a refund!!!
No, count your losses and learn through your pocket, that will soon teach you not to make the same mistake again.
I must also say that Brasso does not work on every type of stain, it takes time to learn which types of stains needs what treatment whether its DIY or professional
Cheers
Sean
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I've used Silvo (the silver polish version of Brasso) on glass and that worked well. Silvo is supposed to be gentler than Brasso apparently.
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I was talking to a lady in an antiques shop and she had an old 80s Hostess trolley with cloudy glass dishes which she couldn't shift and I suggested Calgon but told her I had never tried it myself. When I went back the next time she said it had worked. Sue
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thanks for the suggestion of Calgon Sue.
Never heard of it. Is it a product aimed specifically at cleaning glass? Remember, you're talking to someone who has already laid out a small mortgage on Hagesan Blue and Kilrok K (without results) - so I'm rather wary of buying more chemicals with similar results. Is it expensive?
Now that the weekend is here, I will try the suggestion of Brasso on a nylon type abrasive pad and see what results I get. I will let you know how I get on. Because of the shape, I can at least get insude the vase very easily. cheers Paul.
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New nylon abrasive pads can scratch glass!! :( :huh:
In my experience, it just ain't worth the time or investment in various branded things in order to shift something that doesn't want to go with that little extra effort when cleaning originally. Much better, and ultimately cheaper, to have it cleaned professionally.
However, good luck with your efforts; I'm looking forward to the report back ;) :)
Nigel
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thanks for the warning Nigel - I will try a small area first using a worn pad, and see how I get on. If it looks iffy, then I will revert to a linen pad. Will keep you advised. cheers Paul.
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As a possible last comment to this thread - thanks to everyone who suggested brasso - which I have now used, and it does indeed work. I put the cloth polishing wheel onto the Black & Decker, soaked it all in Brasso and buffed the inside of the vase for 30 - 40 minutes. This has resulted in a ruduction of the matt surface by about 50% - 60% - and I will probably stop there, althoy I cud spend a week on it and get a superb finish. The whole thing looks better. Wonder what it is in the Brasso that achieves this - some sort of polishing compound in suspension maybe. cheers Paul