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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Andy on April 03, 2009, 11:38:12 AM

Title: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: Andy on April 03, 2009, 11:38:12 AM
This vase is a special present to myself because i deserve it  :angel:

I had the great pleasure to meet Patrick Hogan and Ray Annenberg at my local auction this week, luckily they were a bit obsessed with a small Whitefriars Zoo  ;D to notice this beautiful vase, which i was hoping to buy. It was described as Late 19th C European black glass vase enamelled fish......  etc . I dont mind saying, the estimate was £120-160 . I feel lucky to have got it for £110 (plus commission!!)
Ray, Patrick and myself, feel the most likely candidate is Moser, but i would love to hear other opinions from the Bohemian fans, I did consider Harrach, and id guess nearer 1850 than 1900. Its very pretty and quite unusual.
All the fish are Smiling :D . The reeds flowers and bullrushes beatifully enamelled. 4 Gilded cushion feet.
As a Glass collector and Fisherman, i love the design, pattern, shape, and im pleased to own it!  ;D
I hope you all like it,
all ideas and views welcome.
Andy
Title: Re: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: Mike M on April 03, 2009, 06:56:23 PM
Hi

First question is is it real black glass or just dark blue or red etc made to look black?

If it's really black then only candidate really would be Moser (but most of their true black dates to 1920s and this style is earlier)

If its a dark colour then it still could be Moser, but another name to ponder is Riedell -they briefly owned a glasshouse that went in for enamelled square black vases c1900-1910 big time -often with striking Secessionist designs, but also some more traditionally decorated one like this.

Nice vase

Cheers



Title: Re: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: Glasshound on April 03, 2009, 07:01:06 PM
Definitely NOT Moser...probably Bohemian.....

/Blair
Title: Re: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: Glasshound on April 03, 2009, 07:03:39 PM
If it's really black then only candidate really would be Moser (but most of their true black dates to 1920s and this style is earlier)

Are you saying that Moser was the only manufacturer to make black glass?? In fact, it's the complete opposite. I don't think I've ever seen a Moser vase in black glass....

/Blair
Title: Re: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: pamela on April 03, 2009, 07:40:04 PM
Andy, is this his sister clock?
http://pressglas-pavillon.de/tafelaufsaetze/04501.html
Following Dir. Stopfer's (Vienna/Austria) version, could be Hoffmann then.  :)
Title: Re: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: Andy on April 03, 2009, 08:50:03 PM
Hi all,
thanks for looking, i will check colour in the sun tomorrow, i havent done that, i would expect a dark purple,
in brightest light tonight, still looks black.
a question, Ive seen these little dots on a few bohemian vases, decanters etc. , On this vase, dots are white, like tiny pearls, the gilt does Not cover the white dots! i would have thought the gold was done last, but it appears the dots ( i presume white enamel ?? ) are applied after the gilt!
It must have taken days to make it!
(the enamel on the fish , weeds , flowers etc, is quite thick, 1 or 2 mm, reminds me of Poshinger flowers??)

Andy

ps Pamela, thats a nice clock, i dont think its the same, my fish are different, and they are all smiling!!  ;D
The artist must have had a sense of humour and done that on porpoise!  :rn:
(The fish on the clock are a bit like you see from the deep ocean, a bit ghost like, although the water effect and some of the background fish are similar,  so there may be a connection! Although, i think there may be 60 or so years different)  ;)
Title: Re: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: Mike M on April 03, 2009, 10:00:36 PM
Hi

I agree probably not moser

but yes, it was very rare, but Moser were one of only a tiny number of glass makers that achieved the supposedly impossible real black glass - not very dark red, blue, purple, or green but black (I forget what they called it) - I've seen maybe 2 pieces -strange stuff (both with Rudulf Weis signed decoration on the surface)  -I very much doubt this is true black

There were I think a few other glass houses that managed the illusive black but don't know their names -not a cheap thing to produce I expect

Cheers

Mike

Title: Re: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: Mike M on April 03, 2009, 10:08:55 PM
Found the reference its called Hyalyth

and was discussed here http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,6084.20.html (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,6084.20.html)
Title: Re: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: Andy on April 04, 2009, 11:31:36 AM
Hi all,
Ive just held the glass up to direct sunlight, its thick! But as expected ,i  can see a pinprick of purple light.

So general opinion , probably not Moser, any other suggestions ? How about my idea of Harrach?
(just one of andys famous guess's  ;D  )

Thanks for all the input,
Andy


Title: Re: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: johnphilip on April 04, 2009, 11:48:56 AM
I thought the Count Buquoy firm was the one for black glass  ,Hyalyth . jp
Title: Re: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 04, 2009, 01:47:47 PM
Examples of Moser 1922 hyalith can be seen in Moser 1857-1997 on page 119.
Title: Re: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: TxSilver on April 04, 2009, 02:47:31 PM
I checked through my pictures of Moser fish vases and looked at the two I have. I couldn't find any examples of smiley fish. They all look very serious. I also looked at a couple of pictures of attributed Harrach vases. These fish also looked stern. This doesn't mean that one of these companies didn't decorate your vase, but it does hint that some other company was involved. I would also include French and German companies in my search for the maker. The enameled glass can be so hard to attribute with certainty.
Title: Re: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: Jindra8526 on April 05, 2009, 01:21:03 PM
Repetition is mother of wisdom, so once more again

In case of doubts "Is it Moser glass?" ask directly Moser company:

Please send us a product photo and a shot of the company’s logo on the bottom of the product at customerservice@moser-glass.com, fax them at     +420 353 449 619         
or mail them at the address MOSER, a.s.,
Kpt. Jaroše 46/19,
360 06 Karlovy Vary,
Czech Republic.

www.moser.cz

It works and had been succesfully used several times.
Jindrich
Title: Re: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: Andy on April 06, 2009, 12:40:15 PM
Well, Ive emailed Moser . Fingers crossed.

Another suggestion, looking for something else, i found a black enamelled vase by Auguste Jean.
He liked Oriental designs, often fish. unusual shapes, and looking for other examples on google,
he liked to put feet on his vases.  I wonder if his fish were smiling, none of the ones i found had any.

Cheers
Andy

ps. Some of the feet, very similar to Pauls vase.
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,25763.0.html
Title: Re: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: Glasshound on April 07, 2009, 11:29:16 PM
Definitely NOT Auguste Jean...His work was "organic" with odd shapes and drips of glass on the sides....

Heres's something on EBAY that's pretty close to your vase except there's butterflies instead of fish...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230334913249 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230334913249)

/Blair

Title: Re: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 08, 2009, 06:40:05 AM
Those lovely blue ones are made of uranium-containing glass I would bet. Don't know if that's a helpful clue or not.
Title: Re: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: Andy on April 08, 2009, 10:57:09 AM
Thanks Blair,
nice vases  :thup:
Got to be from the same place!

Shame the sellers not sure either ! 'Probably Baccarat, undoubtedly French'   ::)

Any views on the Baccarat suggestion?

Actually Christine, when you asked about 'chips' there is a few teeny ones and a litlle loss to the
enamel in places. But not enough to put me off ;)

Cheers
Andy
 
Title: Re: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: flying free on July 28, 2012, 07:56:20 PM
this looks very similar to your vase - this one is identified as Harrach
http://www.thegildedcurio.com/item-560.html
m
Title: Re: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: Andy on July 30, 2012, 10:09:55 AM
Thanks m,
another great site, lots of lovely glass on the gilded curio , and the odd moggie !!
Andy
Title: Re: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: Mike M on July 30, 2012, 12:18:29 PM
No only is it a really great site.

She knows her bohemain glass especially well and particularly Harrach

I think this is now solved

M
Title: Re: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: Ohio on July 30, 2012, 01:54:10 PM
Not at all certain some of the attibutions under American Glass are accurate. Example: Under American Glass,  Steuben, vase #58 is not Steuben its Beaumont, Wheeling WV & the decoration is Wheeling Decorating's Drapes.
Title: Re: Square Black Fishy Bohemian MOSER?? Vase
Post by: Andy on July 30, 2012, 03:10:05 PM
Thanks Mike.
I have subscribed to the mailing list on the site.
 :D