Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Paul S. on April 20, 2009, 07:04:20 PM
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Have a feeling I have possibly seen the pressed amber coloured 'deco' piece on a post in recent times - but can't remember when. The point about both pieces is the mark which is either a W or M - but not under-scored or in a circle, and I don't see it in Ivo's book, unless I'm looking in the wrong place. The red bowl gives an amberish sort of fluorescence under U.V. light - so may not actually be Uranium. Both pieces have a look of 30's/40's (or perhaps even earlier), and there is substantial wear to the foot of the amber piece. thanks for looking, and grateful for any replies. Paul S.
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You don't give sizes Paul, but the amber one looks like a Davidson shape - see the powder pot HERE (http://www.glasstrinketsets.com/cms15/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=32&Itemid=79&limitstart=2) - this shape also appeared in larger sizes by them but I can't imagine why it would have an embossed M or W on it if it's Davidson. :-\
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HI All,
The M or W on some pieces of Davidson is on ongoing mystery. We have been unable to find when or why this mark was added, although we suspect that it is post WWII.
Regards
Chris
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Can we see the marks on both pieces please Paul.
I think the amber glow may be caused by selenium, which I think is one of the chemicals used to produce red in glass (I'm sure somebody will tell me if I'm wrong.) Uranium is always a bright green.
The red bowl has a sort of Stuarty, Webby look.
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Hi,
The red bowl is a Davidson No 21 bowl. As it is in red it must have been made post war. The amber piece is a 283 powder pot or flower vase (depending in size).
Chris
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Re. the amber glow on a red piece...I would say cadmium sulphide is the cause.
I have a cloud glass bowl with the moulded letter W (M). Still a mystery, as Chris says.
Glen
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Please could we see a photograph of the marks!
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thanks for all of the replies. I wouldn't normally omit the specification/sizes etc., but felt so sure that everyone was going to come screaming back immediately saying...."oh, don't you know this mark means so and so"......that I didn't bother to add the usual details. Just goes to show........so this evening I will post sizes etc.
What am I talking about 'embossed' - nothing of the sort, of course - just simply in relief/raised, centrally, and on the underside of the base. I do have powder pots thanks Anne, so as this brown piece is about four times the size and weight, it may be a 'flower vase' as Chris suggests. I will also try to send a pic. of the mark Pip, although since it is only about 3mm high, not sure how clear it will look. Paul S.
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I will also try to send a pic. of the mark Pip, although since it is only about 3mm high, not sure how clear it will look.
If your camera is a relatively modern digital one, with the basic controls found on most, set the picture size to the maximum. Most cameras will go up to 2,000 to 3,00 pixel width, which when viewed on a pc screen straight off the memory card will show the "M/W" plenty big enough. Also, set the camera to "Macro" mode (usually a flower icon) and take the photo at close distance. Experiment with the distance to make sure the focus is sharp.
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thanks Kev - will do as you suggest - and we will see the results later. cheers Paul S.
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o.k. then here we go...........
you will notice that the 'letter mark' is different on each bowl......i.e. on the brown piece the central point is level with the outer points, but on the red piece the central point only makes it half way up the letter. sorry the pics. are a bit iffy - Having just looked at a variety of type faces both serif and sans serif, there are a percentage of older font styles where this is actually the case..........that the centre point of the upper case 'M' does in fact only reach half way down the height of the character, whilst all points of the 'W' in all of those particular alphabets does reach full height. Whether this might indicate that one mark is a 'W' and the other is an 'M' is a thought - but might just be coincidence.
specifications are:
Brown Bowl.........11.75 cms high..........19.5cms flat to flat across the top. both botton and top rims are quite heavily worn.
Red Bowl.........8.5 cms. high .........24 cms. at the widest part. top rim has feint 'notched' effect.
cheers Paul S.
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Fascinating, I've a fair few Davidson pieces and have never noticed a mark like this on them - I'm going to re-check them all now in case I've overlooked it.
I wonder could it be that the marked ones were made for certain customers - perhaps big orders to be kept separate from other production? Surely it would mean different moulds or mould parts for these pieces? How many different patterns are they seen in, does anyone know?
Edited to add: Chris has mentioned these in his 2002 Cloudglass Newsletter here too
http://www.cloudglass.com/NewsLetters/November2002.htm (added as a cross-reference)
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I would say (IMHO) the mark is probably not an M simply because the uprights are not vertical or near vertical, even though two different punches have obviously been used in the moulds.
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Hi Guys
I see this is still a mystery, not sure if it is still on the board but I raised this question in a topic will be a few years back about the W as I have a few pieces
Tony H
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Hi Tony,
I remember that and didn't I also at that time link to this one of my collection with the M ? Contemporary US and VERY SMALL... :-\
http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/deckeldosen/02963.html
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For what it's worth, I've looked at the photographs of the two bowls, and note that there are slight differences between the form of the letter; I infer from this that the moulds which formed them were different. I agree with the suggestion that it is a W, not an M (and in any event, it's not the M of the Mosser glassware).
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Thank you, malwodyn, this confirms my memory of Tony's thread years ago :)
Leaning very far out of the window now: how about Malaysia?
same as some French patterns copied in Taiwan bearing a T-mark within a circle? :-X
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I'm more inclined to think they were made by Davidson for a specific customer, but I could be well-wrong of course. :)
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Thinking out loud, would it be useful to compile a list of all known pieces with the W/M mark on them?
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YES PLEASE, Anne! Splendid as always :D
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hello Pamela - forgive my ignorance as a 'newcomer' - but what date (approx.) were these French pieces copied by the Taiwanese. However, somehow I don't have the same feeling about the W's. It wud seem that pieces with a W are datable (beyond reasonable doubt) to the late 30's - 40's.
I think Anne's idea of photographing all available pieces with a W is a good idea - to build up a pictorial list of associated pieces - but where do we store them??
I'm sure that if Chris has wracked his brain on this one, then the anwer is not going to come easily. Might the letter stand for.........a place, a country, War, a designer,
I suppose the imagination might run riot with ideas. cheers Paul S.
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Might they have been made for Woolworths? We know they did commission glass, maybe these were for a slightly more upmarket range
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Hi Paul, that's one of the things that the GlassGallery is for. I can add a specific album for them as a research project...
edited to add.... here be the album: http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/thumbnails.php?album=748
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Hi,
Might they have been made for Woolworths? We know they did commission glass, maybe these were for a slightly more upmarket range
Turnbulls were the main supplier for Woolworth in the UK. When Woolworth cancelled their order they went bust.
I don't think those marked with a W were made for a particular customer. Davidson's output was not to restricted to particular customers, so it would not make financial sense to mark pieces for just one customer.
The W could indicate a particular market, or it may have had something to do with the war time restrictions. Pottery manufacturers had to mark their wares with a single letter (i think) to show thay had the right to make and sell. Off hand I cannot remember when this order came into effect. There may have been something similar for the glass industry
Regards
Chris