Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Ohio on May 11, 2009, 07:33:11 PM
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Hi. Am asking for help on this one. Its not US & have been on several European sites trying to find a match. 9 3/4" in height & 4 3/4" diameter. Color is strange...a brownish Green or a Greenish Brown depending on your view. A few (very few) specks of old paint left within the floral pattern. Appreciate the assistance as usual. Thanks, Ken
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I've had this one seen earlier - might recall perhaps: Please give me a chance to GRÜBEL which means something like :-\
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isn't it a JOBLING??
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Thanks Pamela. I was able to find a match searching Jobling. The only difference was that it was "open" between the legs where mine is closed by the three panels between each leg so it might just be a design change. Appreciate the lead. Ken
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Except that colour doesn't look English... perhaps a Jobling lookalike. The browns are generally lighter, more amber.
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This is probably, as Pamela has suggested, Jobling. This appears to be a variant of the 11600 'Open Footed Vase'. It is possible that the design was altered during production as was the case with the ballerina figure, however, I have yet to see any evidence to support this.
Here's a pic of the other version with the genuinely open foot http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-6022 (this is definitely Jobling as it's marked with the reg. no. on one of the legs).
Regarding colours, Jobling made at least two shades which could be described as amber, a pale yellow and a much deeper brown http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-6115 & http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-5952 , however, neither seem to match the colour of Ken's vase, so I am beginning to have some doubts.
I have Pamela's old example of this pattern (http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/vasen/08008.jpg) here on my shelf., the colour of this one is consistent with Jobling's lighter amber colour.
Another observation is that the open and closed version of this vase do differ greatly. It is not simply a case of the legs having been closed in, the moulds show many differences. The closed versions has much slimmer legs, a rounded foot with a base star, rather than a panelled foot which is plain underneath on the open version. The leaves and flowers are also completely different, the leaves are much slimmer and more pointed on the closed version.
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Maybe this is an issue like the Sowerby Dora and her lookalike friend http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,23144.0.html
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Just seen an interesting comment from Bernard re. this pattern in an earlier post.
In respect of pressed glass moulds we have information from Baker & Crowe about retooling the moulds for two Jobling 1930s figurines because of difficulties in extracting the finished article from the mould, and we know that the Open-Footed Vase (No. 11600) went through a similar process.
The full text is here: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,20027.0.html
Unfortunately it doesn't mention how we know this, so I think we'd benefit from Bernard's input here...
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Would retooling for ease of extraction result in
Another observation is that the open and closed version of this vase do differ greatly. It is not simply a case of the legs having been closed in, the moulds show many differences. The closed versions has much slimmer legs, a rounded foot with a base star, rather than a panelled foot which is plain underneath on the open version. The leaves and flowers are also completely different, the leaves are much slimmer and more pointed on the closed version.
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That's a hard question to answer.... I'd say that re-tooling to ease extraction wouldn't need such changes to the flowers, etc. on the upper part of the vase as these parts shouldn't have caused any problems. However, the mould would have had to be heavily re-worked and that may have involved changing the pattern to achieve a more consistent result. Likewise it may also be that the whole mould(s) had to be replaced and the style may have been changed then.
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There again, it might not be Jobling >:D
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The only thing I might add is that both Cambridge & Heisey here in the US had to retool/modify molds because of extraction problems & resulting loss of product & it was far from uncommon. There may be two ways to look at this particlular piece although pure speculation of course. It could be that more support was needed for the open legs, perhaps the were prone to breakage when extracted or perhaps its exactly the opposite, it could be that the original closed area between the legs gripped the mold making extraction difficult. As far as the color goes the pic was taken at night & in the sunlight it is lighter plus while I do not know if this holds true for European manufacturers I can tell you that it was not unusual for batches to turn every now & then on US products & shades both lighter or darker has observed from time to time on pieces original to the manfacturer. This was especially true for opaques from Cambridge, US Glass (Tiffin), Fenton & Northwood. This did not stop them from being sold/marketed, it was just the way things were. Ken
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Hi
The retooling of the Jobling vase resulted in a skeletal 3 branch foot each dog legging up to the vase body being replaced with a solid round(ish) foot -with 3 struts going up to the body of the vase -hope that's clear (I have both somewhere in the loft)
this ones not Jobling alas -someone copying (or vice versa)
cheers
Mike
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Well then what is the one Mosquito posted? It an exact match to the one I posted. It is also not Jobling? Ken
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On second thought thats OK. I'm content that not everything has to be attributed & its simply an art deco vase of probable European origin. Thanks for all the help. Ken
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OK (written in parallel to last post)
one step backwards -sorry to be too hasty
there are two possibilites
Jobling did 3 varients (I'm pretty sure both mine are Jobling as they have the reg num on both) -My two fully skeletal and part skeletal and then this 'all filled in' -I guess its possible but the colour is very odd and the flowers slightly different -Mosquito's post is a much better Jobling colour, but could be anyone elses.
or
Jobling did two and someone else copied (or perhaps there was an earlier vase Jobling copied) -not unusual for Jobling
I'm still erring towards the later -just doesn't look Jobling to me and that colour. Jobling did rarely do some very odd colours (including a darkest blue) but I've not seen this one
another mystery then
appologies for previous haste
cheers
M
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Thanks Mike. I can live with a mystery after all at times in glass it seems there as many mysteries as there are knowns. Ken