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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: david31162 on June 07, 2009, 02:03:19 PM

Title: Like web bronze . Richardson's Brain glass?
Post by: david31162 on June 07, 2009, 02:03:19 PM
I thought these were Webb bronze at first. Then compared the colour to the bronze vases i have.. these are lighter, more yellow-green or olive.
The one that has had lots of base removed (is it a repair/grind down or was it done originally?)has two mixed colours in it a brownish red is mixed in. In Manley's Dec Victorian glass, both 'Brain' glass and Bronze are shown on the same page. Do you think these are candidaes for either category or do you have other suggestions?
Any thoughts welcome.
David
One is 7cm the other 5.5cm
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v210/david-dj/?action=view&current=IMG_2887.jpg
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v210/david-dj/?action=view&current=IMG_2888.jpg
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v210/david-dj/?action=view&current=IMG_2879.jpg
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v210/david-dj/?action=view&current=IMG_2885.jpg
Title: Re: Like web bronze . Richardson's Brain glass?
Post by: Mike M on June 07, 2009, 04:33:49 PM
Wow they are wondefull!

I always wondered how many people made them -I'm certain brain vases were made by quite a few bohemian makers as well as british (Manley, although an excelent book, had a just a slight tendency to assume things were british)

I have a brain vase on my selling site (Kralik page) at the moment - it is very different to these and its underneath colour is a greeny blue -nothing like your yellow green olive -and I'm pretty certain that's kralik

so apart from widening the possible list  -I'm not much help

sorry

Mike


Title: Re: Like web bronze . Richardson's Brain glass?
Post by: david31162 on June 07, 2009, 04:59:20 PM
Thanks Mike, I wondered about other countries too but I was swayed by the picures in Manley's book. I thought that Kralik  would be better finished, Webb too (my other ones are) I've never seen a Richardson piece. I suppose with a really uneven finish (which continues on the base too) it would need some severe grinding down.
What do you think about the one that has had had loads taken off?  Would it have been a 'repair ' to disguise a chip or done in manufacture to flatten a particularly  uneven base finish?
I know what you mean about that finish, looks like some violent chemical reaction, totally random. Would they have been dipped in something?
Thanks again..I'm off took look for your piece and other Kralik exampes now.
David
Title: Re: Like web bronze . Richardson's Brain glass?
Post by: Lustrousstone on June 07, 2009, 05:45:55 PM
I know nothing about these lovely vases, but I would say the grinding was original. Maybe a different grinder or maybe to remove a bad chip that happened at the first attempt, or maybe just to get a decently wide base
Title: Re: Like web bronze . Richardson's Brain glass?
Post by: Mike M on June 07, 2009, 07:35:37 PM
Hi

I think Christine is probably right -the grinding maybe original.

I agree yours doesn't quite look Kralik quality but there were dozens of bohmian imitators all capable of some stunning iridised effects-many we'll probably never know the name of.

These things must have been interesting/hard to make. We know other methods to get similar effects included 'exploading oats' and a variety of dangerous salts added when the item was either in the furnace or cooling. I wouldn't have like to be working were they were made -not too good on life expectancy.

cheers

Mike
Title: Re: Like web bronze . Richardson's Brain glass?
Post by: david31162 on June 09, 2009, 12:18:04 AM
Thanks for your thoughts about the base Christine and Mike.
I think mine look so much like the one on here.. Could easily be a match.  http://www.david-issitt.1hwy.com/catalog.html
But they certainly don't have the same base finish or body colour of Webb bronze. Does anyone else think Richardson could be possible?
Or is this just one of those we'll never know?
 I've looked everywhere for 'Bohemian' glass can't find anything yet..perhaps i'm using the wrong terms to describe it. Can anyone direct me to other similar types of glass or the correct terms to describe the finish? Mike-Could you please point me to your site that you mentioned in the first post.
Oh, and Ive seen an excellent description of how they were made from this extract from G&S Thistlewood's book http://www.geocities.com/carni_glass_uk_2000/WebbBronze.html

Thanks again David
David
Title: Re: Like web bronze . Richardson's Brain glass?
Post by: Glasshound on June 09, 2009, 12:46:22 AM
David,

The "brain" effect on your vase looks like it was produced by a mold. Richardson / Webb "brain" glass looks more "natural" like it was created by rolling it over a rough surface...

just my two cents!  ::)

/Blair
Title: Re: Like web bronze . Richardson's Brain glass?
Post by: Glasshound on June 09, 2009, 01:35:39 AM
f.y.i. i have one of these listed on ebay if you're interested in some close-up pics....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=160337507209 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=160337507209)

/Blair
Title: Re: Like web bronze . Richardson's Brain glass?
Post by: david31162 on June 09, 2009, 05:49:50 AM
Thank you glasshound. Great vase, and clearly different to mine with that typical neat base and dark green body. Mine are sitting right next to a couple of  Webb bronze vases right now (not brain ware) and they are clearly different . Don't think mine are molded though....but ill go and examine the again.
Thanks
 David
Title: Re: Like web bronze . Richardson's Brain glass?
Post by: Lustrousstone on June 09, 2009, 06:35:20 AM
David looking at yours again, you seem to have taken them both from the same angle because the pattern is the same, therefore they would appear to be moulded
Title: Re: Like web bronze . Richardson's Brain glass?
Post by: Mike M on June 09, 2009, 10:56:41 AM
Hi

you can find mine here

http://www.manddmoir.co.uk/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/moir?opendocument&part=7 (http://www.manddmoir.co.uk/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/moir?opendocument&part=7)

and then scroll down its not too different from Blair's -except for shape and level of detail in the 'brain' effect. Mine's background colour is a dark sea green not the green of Webbs - but I'm pretty certain mine's Kralik.

cheers

Mike
Title: Re: Like web bronze . Richardson's Brain glass?
Post by: david31162 on June 09, 2009, 08:36:17 PM
Thanks Mike great piece, fantastic collection on your site too!
I'll keep searching as mine is slightly different to both in several ways.
If you have any more ideas later please let me know.

Does anyone know of the origins of that picture of brain glass on D Issett article (link on my previous post)? One of them is surely the closest to my vases.
David
Title: Re: Like web bronze . Richardson's Brain glass?
Post by: Glen on June 09, 2009, 09:16:43 PM
Oh, and Ive seen an excellent description of how they were made from this extract from G&S Thistlewood's book http://www.geocities.com/carni_glass_uk_2000/WebbBronze.html

David

Thank you.

Glen
Title: Re: Like web bronze . Richardson's Brain glass?
Post by: KevinH on June 09, 2009, 11:55:50 PM
Quote
Does anyone know of the origins of that picture of brain glass on D Issett article (link on my previous post)?
David, and others, please be careful when using the Issitt site(s) as:

a) the pages are noted by "page checking" routines as being "known nusiances" or simillar and

b) Mr Issitt has been known for some time as a plagiarist of many articles from books and websites and hence the text and images may not be presented in the proper context.
Title: Re: Like web bronze . Richardson's Brain glass?
Post by: krsilber on June 11, 2009, 08:19:37 AM
I'm confused.  Are IMG 2887 and IMG 2879 different vases?  I see a bit of one in the background, and the texture looks a tad different maybe. 

Can you feel the pattern on the inside?  It's a very interesting surface.  This may be totally off-base, but to me it looks like the pattern was made with tools on soft glass after the surface was colored.  The Webb and Kralik pieces were made by cooling the outer surface with water then inflating the bubble slightly.  I don't see how that would work with yours.  Unless the two are the same, I don't think the pattern is molded, either.
Title: Re: Like web bronze . Richardson's Brain glass?
Post by: david31162 on June 11, 2009, 11:24:13 AM
I ve just looked at my photographs again..you're right I've only uploaded two pictures of the same vase with and without flash but both bases. Ill add some more.
I've read about adding salts, plunging into water to get these patterns  but nothing yet about tools..but you could be right.
Thanks,
 David
Title: Re: Like web bronze . Richardson's Brain glass?
Post by: david31162 on June 11, 2009, 06:01:44 PM
Here is a photograph of the smaller vase.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/david-dj/CIMG0060.jpg
Title: Re: Like web bronze . Richardson's Brain glass?
Post by: krsilber on June 11, 2009, 08:13:16 PM
That one is quite different!  That may have been done using the plunge technique...looks like it may have been reheated a bit too much on the bottom half.  How do the insides compare?
Title: Re: Like web bronze . Richardson's Brain glass?
Post by: david31162 on June 11, 2009, 08:35:32 PM
I can feel the main creases in both, but indeed they are different in texture. The small one looks as if it was dipped in a thick layer of iridescent liquid, the surface lumps and indentations are smaller and smoother. The larger one is much finer with a clear deep crocodile skin like patterning.
I'm sure they were made at the same time and at the same place though as they are so similar in colour and shape.
David