Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: Wuff on June 28, 2009, 06:19:55 PM
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I'm no good with Murano weights - but assume this to be one:
(http://www.seelentags.de/pw/ovalq74-200.jpg) (http://www.seelentags.de/pw/ovalq74.jpg) (http://www.seelentags.de/pw/ovalq74b-200.jpg) (http://www.seelentags.de/pw/ovalq74b.jpg) (http://www.seelentags.de/pw/ovalq74d-200.jpg) (http://www.seelentags.de/pw/ovalq74d.jpg)
Click on images for larger view.
Diameter 84 mm / height 56 mm / weight 573 g / base flat polished.
I assume this to be late 20th century: is anyone willing to offer another guess, or comment about the maker?
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Hi Wuff
It looks very 'chirano' to me: made in China, sold in Murano (amongst other places).... Late 20th C sounds good.
Alan
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Definitely poor quality Chinese junk. You should be able to tell by the base, but the bubbles scattered throughout are proof of low crafting standards, a hallmark of China's paperweights.
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I agree that it is Chinese. It reminds me of some of the glass that is sold as "Italian design" on eBay.
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Definitely Chinese and if I found it for a few dollars I'd snap it up. It looks pretty nice to me.
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Definitely poor quality Chinese junk.....
I found Bob Hall's report in the latest PCC Newsletter (April 2010) interesting reading - where he reports (on page 22) about his journey to Murano, to visit Roberta Benetti, maker of my paperweight (at least 3 of the weights shown in the article are definitely the same design).
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Hi Wolf,
I believe that this model is made by a number of Muranese factories. For instance, if my memory serves me right, the model Q.I. of the Millefiori factory is based on a similar pattern (and I own a 3 Fiori weight which is of a similar type, too)
Having said that, I agree with the majority that this weight is Chinese/Chirano. It shows how closely the Chinese manage to copy Muranese's paperweights...
Actually, I found Bob Hall's article really interesting. It describes in vivid terms the state of paranoia/fear which prevails among Muranese makers, a fear that seems to be entirely justified unfortunately.
SophieB
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Hi Sophie
It is not just the Chinese copying Murano weights and then undermining the Murano makers: many cheaper weights that have been sold in Murano are made in China, and imported into Italy by local people. Some get the base polished there, and then a 'Made in Murano' label can be attached legitimately. You can search Chinese manufacturers' sites and find the same weights that are on sale in Murano. That is why there is now a campaign in Murano / Venice with some shops putting up notices saying 'We do not sell Chinese products'. When I was at Venice Treviso airport in January there was a large display of modest quality paperweights in the gift shop - and all were Chinese.
Incidentally, I believe that applies to the weights that Bob Hall describes in his recent article: I am sure they are Chinese weights. He denies it - but when I asked him if he actually saw them - or any others - made by this man on the main island in Venice, he said 'No. The weights were in the annealing kiln.' 'And did you see this annealing kiln, or facilities for making these weights?' 'No.' All he saw was a lampwork bench for making the little gift shop glass animals. I think the local agent was pulling the wool over his eyes.
Alan
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Hi Alan,
Gosh! I had not realised that things were that bad!! What a mess the paperweight Muranese industry must be in!!!
It is even more worrying when you consider this whole post. It has taken a number of 'experts' (I count myself out as I am still quite green on the subject) to try and establish the origin of one weight. And even after this, there are still great doubts regarding weights which have been reported to be genuine Muranese products in a specialist publication... How confusing!! :huh:
It does not bode well for the future of the industry.
Actually there may be one way to establish whether Bob Hall's weights truly originated from Murano. The glass makers in Venice have created a consortium (Vetro Artistico Murano) to protect themselves against Chinese imports. The glass makers which belong to this consortium produce genuine Muranese products and stick a label on their products to vouch the authenticity of the item. The label gets destroyed if one tries to remove and place it on another product. It may be that not all genuine glass makers belong to it, but many seem to.
It is possible to find the list of the glass makers and factories which belong to the consortium on its website:
http://www.promovetro.com/portal/index.php
The website is interesting as it contains quite a lot of other information (e.g. it lists glass events throughout the year). If one was hoping to do some research on Muranese weights in Venice, it may be useful to contact them in advance. For instance, they have a page on guided tours (and they also mention the issue of interviews, photos and films).
SophieB
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I agree with Alan's assessment. I read Bob's article yesterday and the weights pictured looked very Chinese. I wish we had larger pictures of the weights in the article.
Allan
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Hi Allan
Does this clickable thumbnailhelp?
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w155/rosismum/th_HallMURANO1.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/albums/w155/rosismum/?action=view¤t=HallMURANO1.jpg)
Alan
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Thank you. It does help quite a bit.
I am certain (my opinion) that they are Chinese. I pulled out a catalog sent to me by a representative of a Chinese company back in 2003 and the canes are all in there, but not those exact styles. When I looked through the catalog, I saw several styles of paperweights that I previously would have been sure were from Murano. The website maintained by the company was www.chinamurano.com. It no longer exists but the name says it all.
That same factory made three "Clichy baskets" for me including the one pictured below:
(http://paperweights.com/china1.jpg)
and
(http://paperweights.com/china2.jpg)
The comments and pictures in this posting are the copyright of Allan Port.
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One more thought. The top center paperweight in Bob Hall's picture has different canes and is from a different maker. It still looks Chinese to me, but it is possible that this one is from a different or new maker. Bob says in his article that the weight contains two RB canes for the maker's signature. So, I am changing my opinion to say maybe this weight originated in Italy. The other three did not (again, my opinion).
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The basket is very nice, indeed!! A pity I have never seen this quality in Chinese weights before!!! I would have grabbed it! :mrgreen:
SophieB
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Allan - the top center of Bob Hall's has canes that i've seen more and more of the last few years on eBay.
Especially French ebay where they get listed a dozen at a time.
See eBay id 170467474807 for an auction of a similar weight. The seller has six listed with no signature canes etc.
The listing says "original murano glass" but does not specify maker.
It is telling that the listing says "The picture is indicative, the glass is hand made and some time can be little different."
My vote is very recent Chinese.
Given that there is supposed to be a signature cane in the one in Hall's picture, and the somewhat better than usual setup,
it is not impossible I gues for that piece to have been assembled by Benetti using Chinese canes.
Over all tho I think the biggest problem with Muranese paperweights is that canes are sold wholesale
to anyone who'll pay. So even genuine Murano canes can appear in Chinese weights, and Chinese canes in genuine Murano weights.
Add to that the various other scams Alan mentioned.
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Two examples, my father bought these paperweights thirty years ago, more or less. I think are chinese.
Best regards.