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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: cxgirl on July 17, 2009, 07:53:44 PM

Title: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
Post by: cxgirl on July 17, 2009, 07:53:44 PM
Hi,
I have this rose bowl that I am trying to ID. It is about 6 1/2" from handle to handle and 5" in height. This glows green under a blacklight.
The colour on the top is more pink than it shows in the photos, fading to a very light pink at the base. Any ideas are appreciated.
thanks
mary
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-11654
Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
Post by: Lustrousstone on July 17, 2009, 09:52:57 PM
Ooh Burmese wear if it glows. Nice one. Are you in the US? If so possibly Mount Washington. Don't think it's English and Webb
Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
Post by: cxgirl on July 17, 2009, 09:57:09 PM
Burmese was the name I was trying to think of, thank-you Christine. I'm in Canada. I was hoping the handles would make this an easy ID.
mary
Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
Post by: Lustrousstone on July 17, 2009, 10:03:25 PM
Fenton is another possibility.
Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
Post by: TxSilver on July 17, 2009, 10:46:41 PM
The birds remind me very much of Harrach. The plants are a bit simpler than the bird vases I have seen, but there was a lot of variability in their work. I have to put Harrach on the table as a possibility.

The vase looks more like peachblow to me in the picture.
Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
Post by: Carolyn Preston on July 17, 2009, 11:25:17 PM
Where in Canada are you cxgirl? I'm in Calgary.

Carolyn
Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
Post by: cxgirl on July 18, 2009, 01:29:35 AM
I don't think Fenton as there is a pontil mark on the base, but could be wrong on this.
Yes, peachblow it is. Did Harrach leave pontil marks like the one on this base?
I have looked at Mt Washington pieces but the bases are all finished off, so I'll scratch them from the list.
I've had this for awhile and originally I had thought Webb - maybe Stevens and Williams?
Carolyn I'm on Vancouver Island.
mary
Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
Post by: TxSilver on July 18, 2009, 02:40:38 AM
Quote from: cxgirl on July 18, 2009, 01:29:35 AM
Did Harrach leave pontil marks like the one on this base? ...

Mary, I've had a few Harrach vases. I don't think that there is any certain pontil type. Their work is so variable. I think your UK suggestions are also good. It can be difficult to tell the difference between the two. I've read that many of the 19th Century vases that were thought to be British are probably Bohemian. It can get very confusing. Some Webb and Harrach enameled pieces are very similar to each other. I don't know how people can distinguish between them without signatures or catalogs. I guess it comes with experience.
Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
Post by: Bernard C on July 18, 2009, 04:54:34 AM
Mary — By the same glass house and decorator and in the same time frame see topics:-

  • Burmese? ewer with enamel and gilt decoration — Id & date please (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,21013.0.html)
  • Crying over spilled vases!! (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,25237.0.html)

    • As you will see, lots of debate, but no positive attribution, yet.

    So this range has now emerged in three countries — US, UK, and Canada.   Where next?

    ... and a request.   May I email your pictures to several contacts who may possibly be able to help?   If so, please email me with formal permission to utilise your copyright images, and your ex-camera or cropped ex-camera images as attachments.   Click the envelope icon to the left.

    Bernard C.  8)
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: obscurities on July 18, 2009, 05:23:30 AM
    For what it is worth, Mt Washington Peachblow, which was only produced for a couple of years was not lined. If this was in fact Peachblow, Mt Washington would not be a possibility. New England Peachblow was also not lined and was deeper in color, and Webb Peachblow would have had a more yellow, or amber casing at the base and a deeper red at the top. It was lined with white. If it is Peachblow, it would most likely be European. Personally, I would look to English or Bohemian as the origin.

    IMHO the artwork strikes me as Bohemian....  Are the little flowers on the branch ends Coralene or enamel? If they are Coralene, I think it would also strongly point to Bohemian, as the process was invented in Germany, and was popular from the mid 1880's to the 1920s.



    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: Bernard C on July 18, 2009, 05:54:21 AM
    It is, perhaps, worth noting that even acknowledged authorities can have considerable difficulty in distinguishing between cased, flashed, or lined layers of colour and those produced as internal or external surface colour changes in temperature- or heat-sensitive glass.   I've found that it is best to keep an open mind when you find these technical terms used — at least until you are confident of their veracity.

    Bernard C.  8)

    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: TxSilver on July 18, 2009, 12:47:16 PM
    I agree with Bernard. I was looking through a book on collectible rose bowls and saw one that looked like peachblow. The surface had been painted to look that way. Looking at the picture, it was impossible to tell. Your glass glows under black light and is white inside. I don't know if true peachblow is UV reactive. Maybe peachblow-like would be a good description until you know something more concrete.
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: Lustrousstone on July 18, 2009, 08:11:20 PM
    Same time frame but I don't think we can categorically say same decorator Bernard, similar decor maybe. Several decorators/refiners (as in individuals) are much more likely to have worked for the same manufacturing or refining company to the same designs.

    This one is different in that it glows under UV light. Does it glow on the inside, or is it just the outer layer?
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: cxgirl on July 18, 2009, 08:31:06 PM
    Thanks for the links to those other pieces. The designs sure are similar, and the pontil on the one looks the same as mine.
    Bernard, I'm at work so I will send the photos when I get home from my computer. I took some additional photos that show a truer colour of my piece and will put those up.
    I will put it under the blacklight tonight as I can't remember if it glowed inside and out.
    mary
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: obscurities on July 18, 2009, 08:42:33 PM
    Quote from: TxSilver on July 18, 2009, 12:47:16 PM
    Your glass glows under black light and is white inside. I don't know if true peachblow is UV reactive.


    I have this piece of New England Peachblow and it does not react to black light at all.  

    I have done some additional reading and IMHO this is most likely what would be categorized as a piece of pink satin glass, as pink satin is most commonly lined. Burmese was also a glass that generally was not lined, and faded from pink or salmon at the top to a yellowish tint at the base..... Unlike the variations in Peachblow coloration that occurred from manufacturer to manufacturer, Burmese is generally the same coloration regardless of the manufacturer.

    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: azelismia on July 18, 2009, 09:36:25 PM
    this piece isn't peachblow, it's cased pink/orange glass. the only actual Peachblow as it's defined from Europe was Webb and this is not Webb. here is an example of Webb peachblow from my collection, the white glass is heavily salted with Uranium and it has a very deep raspberry pink.

    http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/mar%2009/?action=view&current=P1040626.jpg

     Harrach did have a peachblow type although not actually peachblow, it was just pink cased glass, but it doesn't look anything like this either.

    here is a version of the Harrach from my collection

    http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/feb20th/?action=view&current=P1040421.jpg


    it's got a very different look to the glass. the thorny handles looks very English to me. I'd be very very surprised to find out these were from Harrach ( I have a pretty Large Harrach collection) They did put out a lot of different types of glass, it's not impossible, but I don't think Occam's razor points there. They look like stourbridge type stuff to me.  
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: krsilber on July 19, 2009, 04:57:29 AM
    Revi talks about several types of peachblow in Nineteenth Century Glass, and apparently none of them use uranium.  The heat sensitivity comes from gold, just as amberina's does.  It's possible you get a uranium glow from the opaque white.  I agree with others that this looks like shaded piece rather than peachblow.
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: Bernard C on July 19, 2009, 08:34:11 AM
    Quote from: Lustrousstone on July 18, 2009, 08:11:20 PM
    Same time frame but I don't think we can categorically say same decorator Bernard, similar decor maybe. Several decorators/refiners (as in individuals) are much more likely to have worked for the same manufacturing or refining company to the same designs.   ...

    Christine, please don't include me in on this opinion, to which you are quite entitled.   My view, that all three examples were by the same glass house and decorated not just by the same decorating workshop but by the same individual artist, was based on a long list of similarities, and on the exclusiveness of this particular eclectic style of decoration.   These artists were paid piecework rates, so worked at speed.   The four pieces that have emerged indicate to me a production rate very comfortably within the capacity of just the one skilled decorator.   I can just see him (or, more likely, her) coming to the end of decorating this bowl, one of perhaps a dozen or more that she was working on at the same time, checking to make sure it was to her satisfaction, being rather pleased with her three swallows, considering where to put her signature, and then, with the tip of her tongue just protruding from the corner of her mouth in concentration, applying her red beads with a final flourish.   Q.E.D.

    Bernard C.  8)
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: azelismia on July 19, 2009, 10:46:40 AM
    FWIW, I agree with Christine, They don't look so alike that I'd assume these came from the same hand. they look very Typcial of the period.  a lot of companies put out this sort of decor. beading was not uncommon. I've seen examples from America, England and Bohemia with similar decoration. being the ebay fiend that I am, I can say with assurance that this decor is not unique or uncommon in the least. I see this kind of thing all the time.
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: cxgirl on July 19, 2009, 05:51:49 PM
    Here are some other photos showing the colours a bit better. It does glow green on the inside, but I'm confused by the green glow on the bottom half - would that be from the inside glass?
    mary
    http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-11821
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: obscurities on July 19, 2009, 07:03:55 PM
    In looking at the additional pictures, the exterior no longer appears to be satin glass to me. I think I lean towards cased glass also....
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: azelismia on July 19, 2009, 07:19:40 PM
    actually, I'd like to add one clarification to My first post on this. I said it was not Webb, what I meant is that it's not Webb Peachblow, it could still be webb but just as a cased glass, it could also be stevens and williams or john walsh walsh or something like that.
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: krsilber on July 19, 2009, 07:52:46 PM
    The fact that the lower part glows supports the idea that it's shaded rather than heat-sensitive.  The rosy glass is thin enough toward the bottom that you're seeing the inner layer through it.

    I agree with Christine that there's no reason to think these pieces were decorated by the same person.  There's nothing particularly difficult about the style or method, with the possible exception of the birds, but even that wouldn't be tough to learn with a little practice.

    Quote
    the thorny handles looks very English to me.

    Mt. Washington also made handles like this.

    I have a photo of a blue-shaded ewer attributed to MW with a very similar decoration, including birds of the same colors, but different species.  I don't know for sure that it is MW, but it's from the same mold as this one, also attributed to MW:  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=290331041121 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=290331041121).  FWIW, the shaded blue and rose colors match those seen in Avila's The Pairpoint Glass Story.  

    There's also this photo (posted previously in another thread) from Corning Museum of a MW biscuit jar with the same round red beads (though the decoration is different).

    None of this is strong evidence of anything, but may be worth considering.
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: azelismia on July 19, 2009, 07:59:25 PM
    Kristi, the ebay link you sent is a pretty common shape but I've never seen it in an actual mt washington book. I've seen this shape and a couple very very similar shapes attributed to everyone under the sun. I don't think there is anything out there solid to support it though. I've never seen one of these with a mark or referenced in a book. It could be mt washington. I tend to have an expectation from the top glass houses to have a bit more detail in the birds when they are present than these have but I don't think it's a hard and fast rule. Mt washington in particular didn't always have top notch decorators. their better lines did but they also had lines that weren't quite as detailed.
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: Lustrousstone on July 19, 2009, 09:23:04 PM
    Well the inside white layer is definitely uranium and the pink outside is a casing that disappears to nothing at the bottom, so not a heat reactive effect.

    I suspect it could be from almost anywhere; an eight-way crimp is very common, as is a cased effect, in rose bowls. Unless we can find an accurately attributed one with those handles, we're probably going to be out of luck with an ID.

    I have to say that I am  :mrgreen:

    Here's a nice link on rose bowls http://www.mirror.org/harrymcgee/rosebowl.html

    Has anyone got Johanna Billings' book Collectible Glass Rose Bowls?
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: Bernard C on July 19, 2009, 09:27:06 PM
    Clarification, please.   I am getting the impression that it is believed that temperature sensitive glass has to contain either uranium or gold.   This just isn't the case.   Hajdamach recognised in his book that Walsh Crushed Strawberry, launched in November 1883, was temperature-sensitive glass.   We now know that the formula for Crushed Strawberry contains neither uranium nor gold.   The faint response you get to UV in examples of Walsh Crushed Strawberry is from the inner layer of pale apple green that Walsh used.   We also know that within a few years the formula for Crushed Strawberry was known in the United States, and, as it was most likely being spread by consultative raw material representatives, we can assume that it became general knowledge worldwide quite quickly.

    We don't know whether Walsh made a shaded version of Crushed Strawberry like Peach-blow and Burmese, but I would be surprised if they hadn't experimented with it.   Possibly patents prevented them from going into production here.   Lining up my four quite variable examples of Walsh Crushed Strawberry with my mystery decorated ewer shows no substantial difference in surface colour, except that the ewer is shaded.

    None of this helps to attribute these decorated pieces, except that a Bohemian glass house seems more and more likely.

    Bernard C.  8)
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: azelismia on July 19, 2009, 09:39:07 PM
    Bernard, why would any of that make a Bohemian glass house more likely than an English source? Frankly of the three examples provided it wouldn't surprise me to find that one was English one was Bohemian and one was American.

    on crushed strawberry, this article says that the casing for crushed strawberry did include uranium and it was unclear if the pink part contained uranium

    http://www.glassassociation.org.uk/Journal/uranium-4.htm


    I actually think this article makes it very very likely that this piece IS walsh in a shaded varient.
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: Ivo on July 19, 2009, 09:45:49 PM
    Quote from: Lustrousstone on July 19, 2009, 09:23:04 PM
    Has anyone got Johanna Billings' book Collectible Glass Rose Bowls?

    I do - and I do remember all the endless discussions about rose bowls that led up to its publication. But I do not think the answer is available there....
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: Bernard C on July 19, 2009, 10:05:30 PM
    Quote from: azelismia on July 19, 2009, 09:39:07 PM
    ...   on crushed strawberry, this article says that the casing for crushed strawberry did include uranium and it was unclear if the pink part contained uranium   ...

    Skelcher clearly says:

    Quote
    ...   These items are made of at least two layers of metal and the uranium is not in the prominent strawberry or blue! They are examples of where expensive uranium glass has been used unnecessarily.   ...

    He is clear that the uranium is in the inner layer, but hadn't seen an example of Crushed Strawberry where the pontil mark had been ground down to the inner layer, the only way I know of detecting its pale apple green colour.

    Bernard C.  8)
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: azelismia on July 19, 2009, 10:31:10 PM
    right, that doesn't differ from what I said. cased shaded glass is still cased glass. the inner layer can be one thing and the outer layer another, this particular rosebowl is clearly a case of that. the pink part does not react to the black light but the inner case does. the outside of the glass may appear to be glowing but that could be the inner layer showing thru a clear to pink shaded glass on the outside. the pink doesn't react to the blacklight indicating there is no uranium present in that mix. the pink does match the crushed strawberry look, and it is a uranium liner. It isn't crushed strawberry as that was not a shaded varient but there is no reason they wouldn't have made a shaded version, it was very popular at the time and the styling of this piece is very walsh like. I personally think Walsh is the frontrunner for this piece. I wonder if Dave (mr vaseline glass) has seen this one before.

    (btw, I probably shouldn't be posting and hope I am making sense this afternoon, i am running on fumes. we're in the middle of moving and stayed up all night getting ready for movers.
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: Carolyn Preston on July 20, 2009, 01:07:29 AM
    Attached is a picture and an explanation of a peach blown vase found in the Portland Museum of Art, Portland Maine.

    http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-8827

    and

    http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-8826

    Carolyn

    PS, Darn, I've forgotten how to put in thumbnails, but these are links to the gallery.
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: Bernard C on July 20, 2009, 06:20:02 AM
    Quote from: azelismia on July 19, 2009, 10:31:10 PM
    ...   the styling of this piece is very walsh like.   ...

    Not in my opinion.   I've only been specialising in Walsh for about seven years, but I've never seen early or turn of the century Walsh fancies with that pontil finish, nor with that rim crimp.  The handles are not Walsh, nor is the spout on my ewer.   Walsh always paid attention to the inside colour, so a Walsh shaded version of Crushed Strawberry would have had a cream or other colour inside, not a hard white.   And finally I've never seen one-sided decoration on Walsh fancies.

    Also please remember that I am discussing the real products of actual glassworks, not the ludicrous attributions promoted by many optimistic eBay sellers and auction houses, based not on any concrete evidence, but possibly on the number of characters remaining in their title, or perhaps their ability to spell.   Mervyn Gulliver, ignoring many dubious or unexplained attributions in some earlier publications, and working from the surviving original records, has shown that most of these fancies are unattributable, and most of these will probably stay that way.

    Bernard C.  8)
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: krsilber on July 20, 2009, 07:30:29 AM
    Quote
    I am getting the impression that it is believed that temperature sensitive glass has to contain either uranium or gold.   This just isn't the case.   Hajdamach recognised in his book that Walsh Crushed Strawberry, launched in November 1883, was temperature-sensitive glass.


    Are you referring to this passage on pg. 319?

    Quote
    "One of the first to introduce shaded wares when they advertised their 'Crushed Strawberry' in November 1883, The Birminghan factory of Walsh Walsh introduced their version of opalescent glass, entitled 'New Opaline Brocade', in...1897." 


    To me this doesn't imply that Crushed Strawberry was heat sensitive, just that it came in a shaded version.  The heat-sensitive shaded glasses like amberina, Burmese and peachblow appeared shortly after that, and it seems that Crushed Strawberry would play a prominent role in the histories of heat-sensitive glasses if it were indeed heat-sensitive and preceded the others.
     
    Hadjamach says heat-sensitive glass can be made with the addition of uranium, gold, or arsenic, but arsenic (with bone ash) is used for opalescence rather than the kind of colored shading we're discussing. 

    Seems to me there's not enough concrete evidence for anything to be said about these pieces' origins.

    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: Bernard C on July 20, 2009, 08:43:45 AM
    Kristi — Please don't attempt to give the impression that I sit at home sourcing just from books, journals, and this GMB.   You are fully aware, for example, that I stand as an exhibitor at the two greatest glass shows on the planet, where I spend most of my time talking glass with knowledgeable authorities, not just from Britain but from all over.   That's in the car park, while we are setting up, during the exhibitor-only hour or so, while the show is open to the public, and at the end of the day.   Only last week I was in Broadfield House discussing glass.   Two weeks ago I had a most enjoyable and productive day long visit here at home from a name you would recognise.   I'm a regular on two other discussion boards, and an intermittent visitor to others.   And I am in regular or intermittent personal contact with other authorities.

    I would offer to show you around if you come over for one of these shows (fairs for British readers), except that I never have enough time.

    Bernard C.  8)
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: krsilber on July 20, 2009, 09:53:32 AM
    I was attempting to give no such impression, I was merely replying to your reference to Hadjamach.  I don't know what you're talking about or what your point is.  Are you saying you know from other sources or your own observations that Crushed Strawberry is heat-sensitive, and if so, what is the ingredient that makes it so, if not uranium or gold?
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: azelismia on July 20, 2009, 04:57:08 PM
    I wasn't implying this vase was crushed strawberry. I was saying that it looked like it could be from the same glass house as the upper part of this shaded glass was so similar to crushed strawberry.

    Is Walsh a very documented and cataloged glass house?

    ditto what Kristi said.
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: Lustrousstone on July 20, 2009, 07:10:35 PM
    Quote
    Is Walsh a very documented and cataloged glass house?

    Up to a point, there is a good book with pattern book pages (mainly cut glass) but a lot of the company's documentation has not survived
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: Bernard C on July 21, 2009, 05:38:44 AM
    I was recently shown a photocopy of a page from a Victorian coloured glass recipe book showing no uranium or gold in the Crushed Strawberry mix, but, interestingly, selenium oxide.

    At the last Cambridge fair, I asked Charles Hajdamach whether he was being diplomatic by hiding his recognition of Crushed Strawberry as heat-sensitive in a sentence on a completely different subject.   He declined to reply, and just smiled.   As it turns out, he need not have worried about rocking the Frederick Shirley / Burmese boat, as it looks as if Walsh R&D had come up with a completely different recipe for producing a similar effect.

    Christine is right in saying that a lot of the company's documentation has not survived, but Eric Reynolds' more recent research has yielded useful information, some of which is in Gulliver.   Walsh was quite large — at one time in the late Victorian period their output of fancy glass was roughly twice that of any of their Stourbridge competitors.   They were sophisticated and successful sellers in the US market, with several of the finest pieces in Eric's collection being sourced from the USA.   Yet there is much we don't know.   For example, we know that they were by far the largest glass button manufacturer in the UK, and probably worldwide, but we have not found one single example of a fully attributed Walsh button, yet.

    Bernard C.  8)
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: Lustrousstone on July 21, 2009, 06:36:19 AM
    Selenium oxide is a fairly standard colorant for red/pink glass though. Copper is another option.
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: krsilber on July 21, 2009, 06:56:53 AM
    (Edit: As I was replying, Christine beat me to saying...)It's no surprise that selenium oxide was in the mix.  It's a common constituent of yellow and red glass.  But now that you mention it, "modern" struck amberina is made with selenium and cadmium, and no gold.  Come to think of it, I don't know how you got the idea that anyone implied heat-sensitive glass had to be made with uranium or gold.

    Quote
    We don't know whether Walsh made a shaded version of Crushed Strawberry like Peach-blow and Burmese

    I'm confused.  Hadjamach says the Nov. 1883 ad was for a shaded Crushed Strawberry.  And how come he declined to comment, that's what I want to know!

    Bernard, could you show us your Crushed Strawberry pieces?
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: Bernard C on July 21, 2009, 07:33:45 AM
    Quote from: Lustrousstone on July 21, 2009, 06:36:19 AM
    Selenium oxide is a fairly standard colorant for red/pink glass   ...

    Christine — Yes, but it's the first time I've seen any mention of selenium in relation to Victorian coloured glass.   For example there's no mention of it in the Webb recipes in Hajdamach.

    Bernard C.  8)
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: krsilber on July 21, 2009, 07:19:42 PM
    Here's a reference to selenium from 1899:
    http://www.archive.org/stream/elementsglassan00kochgoog#page/n139/mode/1up (http://www.archive.org/stream/elementsglassan00kochgoog#page/n139/mode/1up)

    That is interesting, though, that Walsh was using it that early.  Do you remember if there was cadmium in the mix?  If it's a struck color maybe that's why it's so variable.  Did they make it for long?  Perhaps it was too difficult to control.

    I was reading Hadjamach wrong before.  Bernard's right that he meant it was shaded by heat.  Sure would be nice to see the ad he mentions to see how it's described/shown.

    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: Bernard C on July 22, 2009, 02:56:33 AM
    Quote from: krsilber on July 21, 2009, 06:56:53 AM
    ...   Bernard, could you show us your Crushed Strawberry pieces?

    Unnecessary for this topic, as there is at least one image already referenced above, and there are two more examples here (http://www.theglassmuseum.com/johnwalshwalsh.htm).   Further examples are in both Reynolds and Gulliver.

    Bernard C.  8)
    Title: Re: Cased Glass Rose Bowl Id Help Needed
    Post by: krsilber on July 22, 2009, 04:54:56 AM
    Well for that matter this whole discussion of heat-sensitive glass is unnecessary for the original topic.  Thank you for the link.  I was hoping to see the variation in color you mentioned, but it's not important and it's off-topic, so nevermind.

    (BTW, the blurb in that link about patent 5286, just under the Crushed Strawberry photo is very interesting - sounds a lot like graal.)