Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: jonchellycain on August 17, 2009, 09:25:30 AM
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Hi there
ive had this sat on the side for a few weeks now and no sucess, it came out of a big box i won at auction, at first thought it may be modern nothing special, but now not so sure..
Made from alexandrite glass, very smooth and tactile, nose to tail 21cms. Could it be czech??
many thanks
michelle
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Not much help I know, but it reminds me of a neodymium eel (yes an eel) that I ran across a few months back. Pieces was large I'll say that for it as it measured 20" in length. There was a gold triangular label on it & sorry to say I've forgotten the manufacturer, but it did have Czech Republic on it. Again, sorry not much help. Ken
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This piece had been originaly designed by Miloslav Janků for Železný Brod glassworks (ZBS) in 70ties, but your piece is probably fabricated later, in ZBS Czech republic, 90ties or begining of 2000.
Can be seen in several colours, but alexandrite and citrine glass is sign of new piece.
Jindrich
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thanks jindrich, your brain must be huge to hold all that information in there :thup:
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No Michelle, I have very sophisticated database :-)
J.
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but alexandrite and citrine glass is sign of new piece
Really??
We are talking Light Citrin, ZBS colour number 80100, Citrin, ZBS colour number 80120 and Alexandrit, ZBS colour number 20210.
Would you please explain further?
M
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Marcus,
where these data came from please?
Jindrich
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Hi,
This information came from a full set of ZBS colour and treatment samples, in my Czech glass research materials.
M
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I know that it comes from "Czech glass research materials" Marcus ;D,
I want to know which ones exactly becouse I want to find it and copy it to my database.
I am trying to find and digitalise all accesible Czechoslovakian glass resources becouse it seems to me that this is the only way how to cover the subject completely. Fill the database.
Jindrich
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Anyway, this one looks really very new, isn't it?
J.
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Hi,
alexandrite and citrine glass is sign of new piece
Anyway, this one looks really very new, isn't it?
Jindrich, you made these statements, not I, and all that I ask, is that you justify these statements, with supporting evidence, to other members of the board.
I have spent many years building "Czech glass research materials"
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I have told you the source of the information. These are original, ZBS, factory supplied, colour and treatment samples.
M
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I understand it Marcus,
but anyway than the word "research" is not correct, I would substitute it with the term "investigation".
"Research" in the sense I understand and I have applied at university display and publish all discoverings with proofs and list of sources to allow other followers to continue, check or verify all my discoverings ;D
Jindrich
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I guess Michelle can be pretty sure this is a ZBS dolphin!
BTW Marcus,
for sake of clarity, would you say the ZBS samples of yours that you quote-describe are similar in type to the factory supplied Rosice samples you show on page 140 of Sklo Union: Art before Industry? Are you talking about that kind- type of sample or are your ZBS samples of a different kind, for a different factory purpose? Maybe this is the exact issue Jindrich is asking about? Please clarify if you do not mind, it sounds as if they are labelled sample pieces of glass rather than documents from what you have written,
Robert (aka bOBA)
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Hi
Rosice samples, were colour conformity samples, to check particular melts matched standard colours. ZBS materials are trade samples, supplied to export/import organisations. These are colour numbered (colour sheet) or treatment type and numbered samples (treatment sheets).
Regards,
M
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Well,
we can find relatively many ZBS - Janku figures at our markets in recent few moths. Mostly are in bright light colours, light citrin and this very light alexandrit. The most pieces are labeled ZBS - Czech republic. Seems to me that some stock pieces has been released. All older pieces that I have seen here (labeled ZBS - Czechoslovakia) are in much darker colour tones, some of them in in two or more colours in one piece. Few (4-5) Janků figures are displayed in Town Museum of Zelezny Brod, all in dark blue o multicoloured. I was there last Wednesday, so information is relatively fresh. Based on my experience here I would expect that lighter and brighter colours are from new Czech production. I will gladly enhance my knowledge for new information.
So to share what I found I will copy some details about designer Miloslav Janků given in Zelezny Brod museum in their English, perhaps it will be interesting to know more about that man.
Miloslav Janků (1916-1994)
Graduate from Specialized School for Glassmaiking i nŽelezný Brod and the School of Applied Arts in Prague. From 1939 to 1951 h eled th epainting and etching glass department at she School of Glassmaking in Železný Brod. Afterwards Mr. Janků worked as designer at the national enterprise Železný Brod Glassworks (ZBS). His lyric painting perfonmance in Czech tone was distinct especially on painted and etched glass (in connection with cutting). He also influenced the development of glass sculptures.
Jindrich
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Thanks for all the information Marcus and Jindrich. It is very interesting to hear about the history of ZBS. The glass samples must be very useful when discussing the history of ZBS and their production of glass, like now! Also seeing museum examples is always instructive. ZBS has produced plenty of attractive quality glass, as many GMB members will surely agree (and much of it is still very affordable) certainly a firm worth discussing)
bOBA
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Hi,
Thank you Jindrich.
It would also be fair, would it not, to say that these colours, 80100, 80120 and 20210, had been used much earlier, (particularly in the two-coloured items, for example citrin and virginite, for designs by Klinger) rather than merely introduced after 1989 or 1993. Otherwise members might be drawn to the conclusion, that their 1960s or 1970s original item, was merely "late production".
M
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Hi,
ZBS items are more complicated than we thought. Michelle's fish appears to be pattern number 814019/200/10100. (See Hessink's 31/3-3/4/2007 auction catalogue, fotopagina 125, image/item number 2279)
Given that the 814019 is the design number, and 200, the approximate size in millimetres, what is the last block of five numbers?
Querying this with an exporter colleague in the Czech Republic, it now appears that ZBS used the same colours, with differing colour numbers, (though not names), in different glass-making areas of the factory.
A partial colour list for these hot-worked animals and fish:
10000 Crystal (uncoloured)
10100 Luxodin (lilac) [neo-dymium]
10200 Royalit (pink)
10300 Oceanit (dark green)
10400 Virginit (brown)
10500 Citrin (yellow)
10600 Smaragd (light green)
10900 Cobalt (dark blue)
11900 Light Blue
19900 Black
There are numbers for some intermediate colours, but these were not easily to hand.
From this information, it would appear to be incorrect to refer to either Luxodin or Royalit as alexandrit. I have a feeling that Luxodin, Royalit, Oceanit and Virginit may be registered trade-names, belonging to ZBS.
M
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Marcus,
when we would speak about glass colours generaly, I would agree, citrine and alexadrit coulour were popular in production of vases, ashtrays, etc (generaly attributted to Klinger), but in case of Janků or Drobník figures I would not be so sure, Klinger's figures are from crystal then. But if I were owner of the ZBS piece I would not worry to much about the age, these differnces are important only for us, I am afraid.
ŽBS glassworks as a part of Jablonex group finished the fabrication of glass on 31st August 2009. 167 employes has lost the job.
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Wow,
I have only 4 colours of dolphin, I should never know this!
Has been these colours used for all glass figures or some figures were made only in particular colours?
Jindrich
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Hi,
With the exception of cobalt and black, most of Janků's "Ryby" series appear in these colours, as well as cased examples, such as crystal over virginit, oceanit over virginit, and so on. There may be some examples in cobalt and black, but never having seen one, I cannot confirm or deny with any certainty. Others such as dogs are seen in cobalt, and later, animals in cobalt with crystal highlights. These last are probably after 1989. There exist also, some Janků figures with "marvered-in" colouring.
M
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I can now confirm cobalt blue fish, both cased and single colour.
M
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Well, let we summarise colour:
10000 Crystal (uncoloured) ????
10100 Luxodin (lilac) [neo-dymium] - I have
10200 Royalit (pink) - I have
10300 Oceanit (dark green) ????
10400 Virginit (brown) - I have
10500 Citrin (yellow) - I have seen and will purchase
10600 Smaragd (light green) - I have
10900 Cobalt (dark blue) - Marcus confirmed
11900 Light Blue - ???
19900 Black - ???
Now I have problem with sizes - all pieces I have are from nose to the and of tail about 27cm, only light green one I have in two sizes 27 and 35 cm, Michelle has 21 cm.
Jindrich
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Hi,
Recorded dolphin sizes:
21.5cm, 23cm, 24.5cm, 27.5cm, 28cm 31cm, 32cm plus you have a 35cm version, and may also have appeared in a 38cm size as well.
M
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Skrdlovice size tolerances for the nominal size of piece was +/- 2 cm, I suppose that in ZBS it was simmilar, so it gives me 3 nominal sizes for the moment. Every day one discover something new.
J.