Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: bungie60 on August 21, 2009, 02:12:22 AM
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Just acquired said vase in flint (has a slight violet tinge to it caused by sunlight possibly sitting on a window sill for to long) with flower holder and black plinth, Led to believe both companies used same mould, is there any way of telling the difference thanks in anticipation yours Mark
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I have recently bought a vase which is either a Walther Gibraltar or Bagley Wyndham and I see in Angela's book on Bagley glass there is a brief mention of these which says that there is a way of telling them apart by the number of fan section...but doesn't say how many each one has to be Walther or Bagley or even Crown Crystal. Does anyone know please ? ;D
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I believe this is a Wyndham. http://lustrousstone.co.uk/cpg/displayimage.php?pid=1471
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Sorry not that shaped one...the ones shaped like the Bagley Spinette. Sorry mine hasn't arrived yet for me to photograph but its the ones on the 16th row of this page...
http://www.20thcenturyglass.com/glass_encyclopedia/artdeco_glass/bagley_glass/bagleyglass_home.htm
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Pamela shows a Walther Gibraltar vase at
http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/vasen/02041.jpg
and
http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/vasen/02040.jpg
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:-[ That's the one.....silly me why didn't I think of that !!
Do you know the difference between that one and the Bagley one ? :D
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Angela, definitely I do not know, I'm afraid. The two or three vases in this shape which I've got or handled were absolutely identical - which means either I have got Walther only, or Bagley only, or both companies manufactured the same. Will count the panels of mine again.
;)
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Thanks Pamela ;D
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Just counted the panels in one side of Pamela's and there are 9 I found this one online which says its Bagley and I can only count 8 ;)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Art-Deco-Grantham-Wyndham-Bagley-Uranium-Green-Vasaline-Vase-/121043741606
Mine has 9 so I guess its Walther :-\
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It depends, which side you count and whether the angles count one or two... Angela's Bagley book page 91: 8-8-8-9 - same as mine 8-8-8-9
???
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Maybe Angela knows ???
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Hi Angela
The colour on this vase doesn't look like the usual green seen in most Walther pieces. Therefore, would say its not a Gibraltar vase.
Cheers
Brenton
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The ebay one is Bagley from the colour
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Superb-LARGE-ART-DECO-Baby-BLUE-ODEON-VASE-with-FROG-c1930-/310636548370?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&nma=true&si=CjWb3v41kIAgbia0pcsZNNcK%252FFI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
This is mine...what do you think ? Walther or Bagley :)
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This blue one is harder to tell whether or not its Walther or Bagley....It could be both.
The colour on the flower frog (as per 3rd pic) looks more like Bagley though :)
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The vase just arrived ... I have photographed it next to my other Bagley Grantham variation...I think Bagley now. Walther blue seems much cleaner blue not as smokey as Bagley
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I am having a senior moment I should have said Wyndham not Grantham in my last post...Whoops! ::)
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These are my Wyndham-Gibraltar vases:
pink is acid dip-etched - smooth edges - looks less high due to being really wonky
green is not uranium - slightly rough edges especially at the base
blue is not designed for an insert - ground base
both frogs are shiny clear
the panels of alternating sizes are absolutely same on all three vases as also the stepped feet are
image 4 is a smaller ceramic version, very faintly marked, but could read a number and MADE IN ENGLAND - and I like it too ;D
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Nice collection Pamela, strangely I have just been looking at a ceramic one like yours on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A-Striking-Vintage-1930s-Symmetrical-Art-Deco-26cm-Wide-Diamond-Ceramic-Old-Vase-/400452182756?pt=UK_PotteryPorcelain_Glass_PotteryPorcelain_China_SM&hash=item5d3ccf62e4
The 1933 Walther catalogue doesn't show a flower frog with this vase I surpose it did have one ?
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Maybe that is the answer. Walther without a frog, Bagley with ???
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Aw shucks - I nearly missed this.
I did know the answer when I wrote the Bagley book, but I will have to go back to my original research to re-discover it. I'll start in the morning by counting the panels on the ones in my collection. I'm fairly sure I was comparing the original Walther's catalogue pictures with the original Bagley catalogue picture. I'll get back to you.
Best wishes
Angela
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Hi,
I have checked my Wyndham vases. Then I went to check my CD on Bagley glass, and there was ll the information, quoted here:
The three piece flower set shown above first appeared, so far as we know, in the 1933 Bagley catalogue. It was not included in the 1932 price list and the number 1333 also indicates the date of 1933. There is a very similar flower set produced by August Walther and Sohne in Germany and the picture shown in their 1934 catalogue is identical in every detail to Bagley's pattern 1333 so far as one can tell from a catalogue. We have been told that Walther also included this design in their 1930 catalogue, in which case it looks as if Bagley copied Walther, with or without their permission. There is a marginally smaller version of this design which may be the Walther version, or it may be a third version possibly made by Crown Crystal Glass in Australia.
For identification purposes, we will describe the Bagley pattern 1333 Wyndham three piece flower set in detail. Firstly, there are only two lugs for the central flower frog to sit on, not four; secondly there are 12 holes in the frog, not 10; there are 9 flutes on each side except one, 8 flutes on that one and the flutes are not evenly spaced; the height without the plinth is 6"; length 11"; width 6.2"; length of each side 6.2"; the diamond shape is slightly more elongated, less square, than the non-Bagley version. The internal angles are 123 degrees and 59 degrees approx.
I found that after I'd been out to my studio and done all the measurements on the amber version and the pink version that I have, and then found I didn't need them! I can add that the flower lugs are deeper down the vase on the pink (presumed Bagley) version. 4.5cm down from the rim as opposed to 2.5cm. Also, I have an amber and a green version of the smaller sized 10-hole version, and they are very good quality. Hope this helps.
Best regards
Angela
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Hurrah !! The definative answer.....I have a Bagley Wyndham...2 lugs, 10 holes, 3 sides of 9 fans 0ne side of 8 and elongated shape !! ;D
Thank you Angela for clearing that up :-* To finish it off I even found a plinth !!
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:-[ whoops that should have said 12 holes not 10. Got carried away in my excitement. ;)
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Hi. I've been following this thread with interest as I bought a set this week from a charity shop. Mine has all the measurements of a Bagley vase but it has no rests inside for the flower holder. Is this normal for the Bagley ones. Its a beautiful pale blue set. Thanks Cheryl.
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Hi Cheryl,
I don't know because I've never seen one without lugs. However, if all the other features are right, it will probably be Bagley.
I'll keep a look out for no-lugs versions.
Best wishes
Angela
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I just bought the pink version of this vase
here is an interesting comparison of all the aforementioned designs +
https://theglassfloatbowlman.weebly.com/blog/similar-shaped-vases-that-were-made-by-different-glass-companies-from-different-countries
it seems there may have been more than one design from one or more of the producers
the piece I have is the Walther / Sohne Gibraltar from the overall measurements noted in catalogue diagram