Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: keith on August 26, 2009, 08:05:44 PM
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6 inches across with bubbles and short stumpy legs,looks like Webbs to me,is it?Keith
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Keith, despite your thoughts, it's actually Stevens and Williams/Royal Brierley.
Nigel
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Thank you,just a couple of miles from here(was),ta,Keith
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Just a quick question Nigel,what reference material do you use in regards to Stevens and Williams/Royal Brierley,have a shortage of info in regards to local glass makers and could do with some,ta,Keith.
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If you want the honest answer, it's years of experience, combined with digging in archives. Sometimes the Apocryphal has been proved correct and sometimes not.
Your frustration of not finding any weighty references has been shared by many over the years (including me). This may well be sorted (at least partially) when Charles Hajdamach's new book on 20th Century British Glass hits the shelves later this year.
Nigel
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Thanks Nigel,I'm also waiting for that book got the 1800-1914 one,I was close with Webbs I suppose the colour was just a little paler than the Webbs pieces I have,thanks again,Keith.
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This one has me stumped, so would appreciate any pointers as to who and when... it's a blue bowl, with beautifully graduated and controlled bubbles in vertical columns around it.
Round the centre of the base is a ring of smaller bubbles.
The feet are what made me pick this up as they are curiously pointy shaped and 8 in number. The base is very highly polished with no trace of a pontil mark or any other mark!
The colour is just gorgeous, and the size is 6½" diameter and 2½" high.
Has anyone seen these before and have any suggestions as to its origins please?
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Got one of those,posted mine some weeks ago and cannot remember,Stuart or nearby will check my posts,no doubt some one will beat me to it.Keith
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Brilliant! thanks Keith, managed to find yours here after a bit of searching:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,28310.0.html (I've now tweaked the topic title to make it easier to find again too!) so it's Stevens and Williams / Royal Brierley - that's terrific! And thanks to Nigel for ID'ing yours *and* by extension, mine too! :hiclp:
Mod: topics merged to keep all the info together in one place
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Just a quickie... any idea of date for this design please?
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I recently sold an identical bowl, except that it was the accompanying lid to a jar in the same pattern!
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Yes, Littleblackhen they came in the form of a ginger jar as well, effectively using smaller versions of the bowl in question as the lid, however years ago I tried to see if it was possible to 'marry' the base and top and they seem to be matched prior to leaving the factory. (Someone I knew had a ginger jar and I had a corresponding dish. The two dishes/lids did not interchange.) In other words you would need to select from many dishes before finding a lid that will fit the base.
As for date, at this point in time, I would suggest that it is similar to the Rainbow Range by S&W, that is 1930's through to 1950's. However, this will need further research for confirmation.
Nigel
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Nigel, thank you, that was what I'd suspected but it's good to have your thoughts too.
Incidentally, there was a lid with a knob on my bowl like this when I picked it up... the lid doesn't fit well - it tends to tip sideways, and has no bubbles in it despite being an almost exact colour match. I'd assumed it was a marriage so have removed it... would that be right Nigel? (I can add a pic of the lid if it helps.)
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Please do post a photo of the lid, and the lid next to the bowl if possible, Anne. But there is no rush as I'm off for a few days (a quick visit to Mum's).
Cheers, Nigel
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OK Nigel, shall do it over the next day or so (when I've found where himself has hidden the camera this time! ;D)
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Hope you had a good visit to your Mum Nigel. :)
Here are the pics showing my bowl with the lid it came with, which I don't think belongs with it. (I'd love to know what the lid is from though!) You can see how badly it fits in the second pic with the lid in place... if it's not in exactly one spot it slips sideways! ::)
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Hello Anne,
I looked at this a few days ago when you put it on and decided to give it a little thought before answering.
At this point in time I am not aware of a lid like yours that I can attribute to S&W.
However, I suppose we have to go through this a little.
On the one hand you say that the colour is not true to the base and that the lid is not a good fit. Quite obviously there are also no bubbles in the lid, so one might well assume that it did not start life as the lid to this bowl.
Conversely, depending on the thickness of the glass, whether or not it was made at the same time as the base, etc., it is still possible that it could be a S&W lid. Equally, have you ever tried to match a lid and a base (or a stopper with a decanter base for that matter)? It is a very difficult thing to achieve and requires a modicum of luck, especially if you are to even approximate a colour match as well (clear being somewhat easier). The lids on the ginger jars are not a particularly good fit, so that also makes one wonder. The biggest problem is the lack of bubbles, which certainly leaves a huge question mark about whether or not the two pieces are original to each other.
Not really an answer I know. More of an analysis of the characteristics which allows one to make a judgement - which I'm sure will divide into two clear lines of support. My guess is that they could have been bought at the same time as each as a sort of mix and match that appealed to the owner at the time, but without anything to back it up, other than the problem of matching the top and the bottom at a later date.
You pays ya money and ya takes ya choice ;) :)
Nigel
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Nigel, thank you again, you've summarised my thoughts on this far better than I could have explained myself. My own feeling is that the lid was not intended to go with the bowl - it feels like it should be the lid from a different powder pot or other lidded bowl, but whether or not we can ever find out if it's S&W or whoever else, remains the question. The only certainty is that the lid feels well made, and I'll keep it as a mystery piece until I can find out more. Thank you so much for your time and insight.
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Have just returned from Dudley archives where I saw two photographs in one folder, no date I'm afraid, in the Royal Brierley, S&W's records section of a number of these bowls ( no lids ) and vases and the other of 'Rainbow' vases, bowls and a small jug, will be returning when possible. ;D ;D
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Here's another shallower bowl which looks like the same colour as your's Keith . It's 10.5 inches in diameter , has eight pointy toes to foot and 12 lines of controlled bubbles.
P.S. The Dudley archives might be interested in the sign ;) Worth mentioning it next time you are there !
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That looks right to me, I looked on google maps and realised the sign is on a railway cutting, might be a bit of a pig getting my hands on that ! not sure the archives are interested in old signs ::) ;D ;D
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Thanks Keith, I am 99% sure the lid is an imposter! :)
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Thanks for having a look at the bowl , it must be a variant on the same theme I guess.
The archives department might suggest a good resting place for it ;D
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It would look nice in my back garden but that fence looks a bit dangerous ! :o ;D ;D
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Keith you mentioned previously in this thread that you saw photos of the 'Rainbow' range. Was it actually called Rainbow anywhere on documentation please?
Thanks
m
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Sorry m, it was just a a pack of photographs with S & W written on the back, a lot of archive material had been returned to the family, no idea why ??? ;D ;D
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The family had quite possibly loaned the material.
If not,several years ago I know that there was talk of a book about S&W, so it might have been returned for help with that.
However, don't get excited, as these things do take time, and it could of course just have been a rumour!!
Nigel
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Strange you say that, while at the Webb Corbett visitor centre someone told me David Williams-Thomas was very busy with the family history so the rumour may not be a rumour, ::) ;D ;D
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So still no confirmation that the 'Rainbow' range is an official pattern name? (this is in reference to another thread about the use of the name arabesque and arboresque).
m
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I'll email Mr Williams-Thomas and ask if he knows, although he didn't answer my last one so we'll have to wait and see ::) ;D ;D