Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: Nicholas. on September 01, 2009, 10:49:55 PM
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I bought this miniature weight imagining it to be German but not necessarily Bohemian.
I bears signs of wear that would lead one to believe that it was made before 1900 but how much before I don't know.
It is extremely well executed but the glass has very slightly greyish tinge and has numerous very small air bubbles trapped in it.
Any leads would be much appreciated.
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For a similar weight, but with red cane, see the 1999 Exhibition pages in the site for the Paperweight Collectors Circle (http://www.paperweightcollectorscircle.org.uk/).
To get to the weight, point to the menu for "Events" and in the drop-down list click on "Past exhibitions". Then scroll down to the bottom of the page and click the "Index here" link under "1999 Christie's, London". Now click on the link under the "Bohemian" heading in the "Antique" column. Finally, scroll down and click on the image for "Swirl 19" and this will show the weight in larger view with some text.
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Kevin,
Thank you for enabling me to discover the origin of my weight and for showing me where to find a similar example.
Nicholas.
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Hi Nicholas
The term 'Bohemian' is often used rather loosely, sometimes meaning Silesia and Northern Bohemia, which is reasonable. But it is also (mis)used to describe weights from various areas in Germany, including Thuringia. I suspect your weight may well be German.
Alan
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I've just had to take a good look at an historical atlas, in order to place these different regions of pre First World War Bohemia, Germany, Poland, etc.!
What interests me greatly is why the weight in the Pwt. Circle 1999 Exhibition was attributed to Thuringia, thus potentially leading on to an attribution for mine. Was it the colour and quality of the glass? is the design a known variety? or are there details of technique that are common to weights of this origin? What, please, are the clues?
Also why Thuringia in particular, rather than Bohemia or Silesia?
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Hi Nicholas
I was not suggesting your weight was necessarily Thuringian. It may well be 'Silesian', with the uncertainties that brings as what was Silesia now lies in Poland and Germany, I think. It is worth having a look at Peter von Brackel's book ( see page 3 of this list (http://astore.amazon.co.uk/crosscountrys-21)) - in it he illustrates many weights from Germany / Silesia / Thuringia / Bohemia.
Alan
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Thank you Alan,
I have the book you refer to but, as the weights I collect are generally a bit earlier than the majority of those illustrated in Peter von Brackel's work, I've not really studied it with as much care as I should have. I'll get on to that!
Nicholas.
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What interests me greatly is why the weight in the Pwt. Circle 1999 Exhibition was attributed to Thuringia, thus potentially leading on to an attribution for mine.
The wording for that paperweight in the PCC 1999 Exhibition is, Probably from Thuringia
(i.e. not a definite attribution) and that was based on the understanding of the owner (and others) at the time.
In the PCC 1999 Exhibition, all weights from the general area that was once Bohemia / Silesia / Thuringia (etc.) were classed as "Bohemian" because, again, that was the best that most folk could ascertain at that time.
Perhaps the "Bohemian" section of those pages could now be reviewed by someone with more knowledge and rewritten? Maybe a good job for the current PCC website editor to coordinate. ;D
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Kevin,
Thanks for explaining how, in the 1999 exhibition, Thuringia came to be suggested as a possible source of weights such as mine.
I've just been looking in the book recommended by Alan and I've found two weights that relate to mine on page 233. Both of these weights have "multi layered" swirls, constructed in the same manner as the swirl in my weight, albeit coloured ones.
Nicholas.
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Also in the Von Brackel book, pages 148/9, item 309 is of interest, with a flower design that is fairly similar in structure, albeit with a central bubble, and attributed to "Probably Germany (Thuringia or Bavarian Forest?) 1890-1925".
However, also see items 138 and 139 on pages 90/1. These show examples of weights with a "double spiral filigree ground" and are suggested as "Probably Sileseia (or Bohemia?) c 1860-1914".
Could we please see a photo of your weight, Nicholas, in side and base view to get a better idea of how the "spiral ground" is formed?
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Kevin,
Yes I'd noticed the weights in illustrations 138 & 139 on Pages 90/91 and there is another, "140:Above" on Pages 92/93, which shows the spiral filigree ground quite clearly, this time in yellow.
The outer, complex, canes in this latter weight have a star cane as one of their components which is very similar to those used in the centre motif of my weight. "138:Below", on the previous page, has what is also possibly the same type of star cane in the complex canes which alternate in it's outer row.
The star canes in my weight are with a minute, green, circular centre which is surrounded by the five points of the yellow star, the indentations between these points being filled in with a contrasting colour, in this case blue over white, whilst leaving the yellow tips of the stars' points just visible as lines down the sides of the stretched canes. In addition it appears that these yellow stars had the finest, almost imperceptible, coating of transparent red before the white/blue layer was added.
Also these star canes in my weight are formed using the same strident combination of yellow and blue which can be found in the centre cane of "140:Above".
I'll take a couple more photos of the weight tomorrow, showing the base and the profile, which is quite interesting. However I have had a slight problem with the size of my photographs being incompatible with the site's system. I had to reduce the one posted, hence it's lack of detail. If you have any suggestions.....
Nicholas.
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For info on posting photos, please see the TECHIE TIPS: Posting Pictures - Guidelines and how to (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,6522.msg55557.html#msg55557) under the Board Information, Help and Announcements forum.
The usual problem people have with "size" of image is that the photos are larger in KB size than permitted, rather than "too wide" or "too tall". Photos added directly to a message are automatically handled for display even if they are, say, 800 pixels wide. But if they are over 125Kb, they will not be loaded.
So, keep a reasonable width and height to show detail but just optimise the Kb to 125 or lower. Also, consider taking close-ups of points of detail rather than showing the biggest possible image of the whole thing.
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The answer is not to take your photo at a low resolution (that just means we get a large fuzzy picture) but to use the resize option in whatever your view or edit your pictures in. That way we get a nice clear picture
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Here are a few more photos of this paperweight, I hope that they give a better idea of it’s construction.
Photo No. 1 ; Taken from the side and showing the rims of the two latticinio “discs”, one above and one below.
Here one can see that the spiral latticinio ground which, at a cursory glance, appears to be formed out of two separate “discs”, one seated on top of the other, is in fact formed in one single unit of which both of these “discs” form a part. The very same latticinio threads which form the topmost, smaller “disc” extending downwards to form the larger “disc” beneath it.
Photo No. 2 ; Taken from the side, this also demonstrates the continuity of the latticinio threads.
Photo No. 3 ; Closeup of base of weight.
Photo No. 4 ; Top view, showing construction of central blue/yellow motif, white rod’s “mini-disc” and “star circle”.
The blue/yellow motif, which consists of only one “disc”, is of similar construction to each of the two latticinio “discs” below. The white rod, which forms this motif's central element, flares out to form it’s own tiny “mini-disc”, which can be seen, encapsulated, within the rods of the blue/yellow motif.
What appears to be a circle of minute yellow star canes, surrounding this central white rod, can be seen to be the cross-sections/ends of the blue/yellow rods used to form the central motif, which have been manipulated to create this effect.