Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: uphoosier on September 26, 2009, 04:07:31 AM
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I know it is late (or very early if you are in the old country) but I just got his bowl home and I am so excited I can't sleep. The color and iridescence make me think Bohemian, but I don't think they were big on hobnails. But I must admit, this is the first piece of glass I have seen that has two rows of double hobnails. Two rows point in to the bowl and two point out of the bowl. Such creativity and skill by the glassmaker. So, what are your opinions regarding maker? And does anyone else like it as much as I do?
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-9/385128/P1070510.JPG)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-9/385128/P1070511.JPG)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-9/385128/P1070512.JPG)
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I have seen one of these in cranberry attributed to Loetz by a seller on ebay.com (some time ago), I was interested because I have one in green but it has no foot/stand. The stand on yours differs from the the other one I saw which had a complicated arrangement of three legs.
I have to rush out now, will take a photo of my green one and post it later.
John
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Beautiful piece - my guts are telling me Kralik on this one. The red oil spot and the dramatic shape are two Kralik markers for me.
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I agree with Warren on this piece.... Looks Kralik to me.....
These style pieces are almost always attributed to Loetz on ebay and never are by Loetz.... Of course, if you believe ebay, Loetz was the largest producer of glass in the region... and there may have been a couple of other very very very small companies.... :thup:
Craig
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Anyone got a spare stand? ;D
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The dealer had mine ID'd as Loetz. I think for a lot of folks, it is the only Bohemian name they know. I like the green, and I hope you turn up a stand. I need one as well for a German amber opalescent bowl I have.
Thanks for the replies.
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Obsessed, I just noticed your location is South Wales. I bought mine in the Upper Penninsula of Michigan in a region where a lot of Welsh miners immigrated to in the last half of the 19th century. I don't imagine a Welsh miner would pack one of these in a steamer trunk, but many of the mining companies were British owned. I live in Gladstone, named after the PM. Kipling is the 1st RR stop to the north, and Rudyard is the stop at the end of the line. And, everyone up here knows what a pasty is. :thup:
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Anyone got a spare stand? ;D
Much easier to find a spare stand than a spare bowl..... :thup:
Craig
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uphoosier I've got one myself, but have to say I like your color better. Ken
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Excuse me, as I must be being really thick here! :-[ But the first image shows a stand that doesn't appear to fit well although I can't see how it's finished off inside the bowl. Then a stand with three legs is mentioned, which is different from the stand shown here...so...my (probably really stupid!!) question is why does this bowl need a stand? Is it supposed to have one at all??
::awaits answer and ready to dive under a nearby stone::: ;)
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Max probably not, however over the years I've probably seen 1/2 dozen or so of these & each one has been drilled for a stand. Ken
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Thanks! How interesting! So, generally the stands for this bowl aren't identical? The bowls were made ready for stands, but without the stands being part of the retail process? There must be a story behind that. :)
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There were probably multiple options available for the stands these bowls went on. I don't believe they were produced without the metal being part of the finished product. They most likely outsourced the metal to their design. The companies may have also made bowls for metal manufacturers who attached the bowls to their metal. The attachment inside the bowl is generally a decorative "nut" of some sort that attaches to a threaded shaft that comes up through the drilled glass. I have seen many styles of bases for these, and not many duplicates over the years..... Many similar glass styles, but not a lot of similar metal pieces....
No need to Rock Dive at the moment ;D
Craig
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No need to Rock Dive at the moment Grin
Makes a change! I'm glad I asked. I learned something. :thup: Thanks. x
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Yes I agree always interesting to learn something. The stand on the first post by uphoosier, is very similar to one that I had which supported an old oil lamp. I assume that providing the stand is weighty enough to support the bowl, a temporary stand of the oil lamp kind may do the job until a more sympathetic one comes along? Emmi
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Wow, I was not expecting that much variety, finding a stand looks like a more viable proposition now.
I did not know of the Welsh links to Michigan but pasty is how we look when it rains all summer long. ;D
Given the poor treatment of miners by the mine owners it is no wonder that many miners opted for the possibilities and risks of a new life thousands of miles away.
Any ideas for possible dates of production?
John
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Some of the English pressed glass comes with different stands, e.g. a simple metal cone or a naked lady. (I know this is not pressed :rn: ) And often the larger bowls and plates have a thinner circle in the middle that looks like part of the design but is actually to give the option of drilling a hole.
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It is possible, after looking at the images again, based on the fit of the base to the hole in the glass, that this base is a replacement...... I am interested in what it looks like from the top......
Craig
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Production would be ca. 1900 give or take a few years.....
Craig
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Here's top down.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-9/385128/P1070513.JPG)
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I guess what I am seeing is a disc of Paper or cushion of some kind between the metal and the glass on both the top and the bottom of the glass? The hole is smaller than I thought, as it looked quite large in the one pic. The base is probably original to the piece.
Max: This is a pretty typical type of nut which is holding the metal and glass together...
Craig
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The stands were possibly provided by the retailers?
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Just so happens that I know a lady that has the twin to mine (well close anyway) & I had her take a few shots. She inherited hers from her Aunt who traveled europe over the years in the 50's & her Aunt bought hers in Austria, but thats all she knows. Different stand & its marked 4351-5H so evidently there were multiple stands that could be used. Ken
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Dave Peterson (mrvaselineglass) stated on another board that he believes the crimped hobnail-like bumps were most likely made by Loetz:
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/topic/Pottery-Glass-Porcelain/Please-Help-To/520076086&#msg521629486
"I have also recently put "2-and-2" together and have figured out where all of the JIP pieces and other bowls were made that have that little bumpy pattern that is uniform in size. This is 1880s LOETZ from Bohemia. I recently saw on ebay a bride's basket that was such a color configuration that was only made by LOETZ, and it had these little bumpies in the same pattern."
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/topic/Pottery-Glass-Porcelain/Unusual-Colored-Glass/520099725&#msg522082149
"My next 'ah-ha' moment was when I saw one of these bowls (same base, same milk glass underside, same rough-ground pontil) that had all the same attributes, AND the controlled bumpy pattern that is done with a crimping machine. (uniform pattern, not done by hand). I have never seen anyone before make this leap to that particular style of crimping with the controlled bumps, but they are frequently seen on JIP vases (more so than bowls). It is my very strong belief that Loetz was the only one doing this. It was their 'thing'. I have never seen anyone attribute those bumps to any glassmaker, so I am sticking my neck out and say that it is 'most likely' Loetz, based on how the glass is constructed and not having any other person ever come up with anything else."
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Afraid I'd have to respectfully offer another viewpoint with that statement when it comes to JIP vases that Loetz was the only one doing that (crimps, bumps, milk glass base, rough pontil etc.) because its well documented in knowledgable art glass circles that Boston & Sandwich Glass JIPs shared these characteristics. You can find these examples throughout the US although more so in the NE area. Examples are listed in B&S references as well as a couple of on line websites. I have three known color combos...all B&S. Bowls are another matter though. Ken
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I emailed a couple of these images, the original bowl and the green bowl to Alfredo and he has confirmed that these are Kralik ca. 1900.
Craig
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Craig, thank you very much. :angel: And my thanks to Alfredo too.
John
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Thanks to all for the comments. Amazing how if you discuss a subject long enough, it comes full circle
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Looking at the first photograph posted, it seems to me that the stand is made of cast iron; am I correct?
I have seen decorative ceramic bases for oil lamps that seem to have been made to a "common" specification by different manufacturers - is it too much to suppose that a manufacturer of glass bowls would have in mind stands or bases made by a range of different companies in the region?
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I do not think we know for sure, at this point, if the glass was made for a metal manufacturer, or if the metal was brought in by the glass house..... or if both situations ocurred. It has also been suggested here that possibly the retailers, or I'll suggest exporters also, made the final marriage of metal and glass.
Craig