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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Pinkspoons on October 24, 2005, 01:59:14 PM

Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Pinkspoons on October 24, 2005, 01:59:14 PM
A Holmegaard decanter I bought from eBay arrived today... although not in the "mint" condition as described. There are marks inside the bottle that I just can't budge - just wondering if anyone knew the best way to be rid of them without having to resort to professional cleaning?

The marks don't look like limescale to me, and I'm not sure what proper near-unmoveable water staining looks like... but I hope it's not that.

I've photographed it as best I can:

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/pinkspoons/aristocrat-stains.jpg)

I'd rather have a go at shifting the marks than returning it, because it will sit nicely in my ever-increasing collection of Aristocrat decanters... and because the seller is trying to shirk giving me a total refund.
Title: How Disapointing
Post by: CathyG on October 24, 2005, 02:34:25 PM
Pinkspoons,

I have never been able to clean that kind of water damage. However, depending on the maker and the type of glass, it does make a difference in cleaning it. If vinegar and bee bee's doesn't work, more than likely nothing will. If you don't know the bee bee method it's...a handful of bee bee's added to vinegar and a little water. You have to sit and swirl the bee bee's around the decanter to try and get them to remove some of the deposits. Rice is used too, but I never had any luck with rice. I don't know if you have better glass cleaning fluids there than we do here in the States, but I would avoid putting any kind of chemicals in it because that can make it worse. Professional cleaning to me is the only way. It was explained to me by my glass cleaner that glass is porous and the calcium sits in there and can't be removed with any liquid. When I have a decanter cleaned it can take up to 3 weeks. They use some kind of silicone beads and a polishing compound inside the decanter and then it's placed in a machine that turns the piece until it polishes the inside back to it clear surface again. Good Luck! I hope you find something that will help.

CathyG
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: paradisetrader on October 24, 2005, 02:39:40 PM
I'm having trouble figuring out what I'm looking at here ...is this the top end of the decanter ?

See these topics for water staining
Getting rid of water stains - ideas or help appreciated!
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,286.0.html

Well....how DOES water damage occur?
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,967.0.html

Oops.... Dodgy Bleach Stain
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,1896.0.html

..........but water ? in a decanter ?
Surely an alcoholic drink is more likely ? ....in which case I'm stumped as alcohol should clean rather than stain. Maybe the alcohol evaporated and left residues of the other constituents ?

Or maybe its a "Dodgy Bleach Stain" from the sellers attempts to clean it.
Final possibility is glass sickness ............eeeeek !!
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Pinkspoons on October 24, 2005, 03:16:41 PM
Hi. Thank you both for your replies.

I've tried the rice method, and it didn't do anything, unfortunately. I'm not quite sure what bee bees are - I don't think we get them in England... Though we do get bees! I'm not terrbily sure that swirling them in a decanter will do much, though.  :lol:

And the photo is of the top of the decanter. For some reason the bottom half in unscathed and there's no clearly defined water mark where fluids may have sat in it. T'is most perplexing. I'll include a full photograph (you can just about make out the staining where the light hits it).

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/pinkspoons/aristocrat.jpg)

Thanks for all the links. I shall try some of the methods mentioned and see if they work. If not, I shall pester the seller for a partial refund to cover the costs of restoration (about £20 is the cheapest I've found so far)
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: chuggy on October 24, 2005, 04:15:26 PM
When I got my Merletto vase a few weeks ago it was very badly marked and after trying many things in desperation I tries Sillett Bang as advertised on TV. I soaked it overnight in a warm solution rinsed it next morning and then soaked it again working on it with an old tooth brush. Result absolutely pristine, I was gobsmacked, but it really did work.
Paul
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Pinkspoons on October 24, 2005, 04:29:10 PM
Ah, now this one I can try! Common-or-garden limescale remover hasn't worked.  :(

I may have to adapt a toothbrush, though, as the neck of the decanter is quite tight.
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: tmaritta on October 24, 2005, 04:53:39 PM
Can I ask what is Sillet Bang and what is it used for, as I may not find the same brand here in Tenerife.  I received today stained Finlandia bowl and denture cleaner didn't remove any of the stains.  The bowl is now filled with potpourri!

Also, what brand names there are for silicon oil and what is it normally used for?

TMaritta
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Pinkspoons on October 24, 2005, 05:15:26 PM
Cillit Bang is a kitchen cleaner, used for ovens and baked-on thing on pots and pans, as far as I can make out from the profoundly annoying adverts on TV.
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: chuggy on October 24, 2005, 05:26:02 PM
Right just been down and got the tub which describes contents as oxygen based bleaching agents, and various other bits. It's made by Reckitts in the UK, but I believe is available across the EU. No guarantees, but it did work well for my piece.
Paul
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: tmaritta on October 24, 2005, 06:15:17 PM
Thank you Pinkspoons and Paul.  It will be probably available here as well, at least in the shops that are selling (at inflated prices) for the British expats, like Iceland.

TMaritta
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: CathyG on October 24, 2005, 06:20:40 PM
Sorry, I wrote that wrong... I meant to say BB's that are used for air guns. I have regular ones and copper, these work because of the smoothness and weight of them. But, if it's calcium deposits it will not work. Someone had liquid in that decanter and placed the stopper in causing the condensation at the top and not the bottom.

CathyG
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Pinkspoons on October 24, 2005, 06:35:01 PM
Ah, I did see a site recommending lead shots & soapy water. I think I'll try the Cillit thing, though, as it's a bit more available than BBs.

I'm just really annoyed that the seller didn't think this mass of horrible streaky cloudy mess in the decanter worth mentioning in the auction write-up.
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Max on October 24, 2005, 06:36:53 PM
Quote from: "CathyG"
Someone had liquid in that decanter and placed the stopper in causing the condensation at the top and not the bottom.

CathyG


Exactly my thoughts Cathy.  

Pinkspoons, I don't think you'll get those marks out.   :(   You can only cover them up with silicon oil, but you'll find that difficult to apply due to the shape of the decanter.  Of course, this 'repair' will only be good as long as the oil stays on the staining, if you wash it the staining will reappear.  In future ask the seller if there is any water staining to their item - I've been caught out this way myself.  

Lovely decanter too, what a shame.   :cry:
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Max on October 24, 2005, 06:42:35 PM
Paul said:
Quote
When I got my Merletto vase a few weeks ago it was very badly marked and after trying many things in desperation I tries Sillett Bang as advertised on TV. I soaked it overnight in a warm solution rinsed it next morning


That might have been deposits on the glass.  :?:  In my (humble  :D ) opinion, once the surface of the glass has been compromised with staining, nothing will repair it.  Well, bar taking it to a professional...I believe they can repair it with tumbling for a price?
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: CathyG on October 24, 2005, 06:46:18 PM
You can only cover them up with silicon oil, but you'll find that difficult to apply due to the shape of the decanter. Of course, this 'repair' will only be good as long as the oil stays on the staining, if you wash it the staining will reappear.

I've done this too, I've poured it in, swirled it around, turned it upside down to drain... Then put it up high enough so no one can get a close look! LOL

CathyG
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Max on October 24, 2005, 06:57:30 PM
Quote from: "CathyG"
You can only cover them up with silicon oil, but you'll find that difficult to apply due to the shape of the decanter. Of course, this 'repair' will only be good as long as the oil stays on the staining, if you wash it the staining will reappear.

I've done this too, I've poured it in, swirled it around, turned it upside down to drain... Then put it up high enough so no one can get a close look! LOL

CathyG


Snap! Our postings must've crossed  :D  :D   Btw, I've tried using baby oil too, it'll do at a pinch if you have nothing else.   :wink:
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Ivo on October 24, 2005, 07:00:05 PM
Not quite - in some cases the staining will disappear completely and not return if treated with silicone. I have managed to restore a cloudy Orrefors Fuga bowl that way to complete satisfaction.
Baby oil will NOT work, I seem to remember we've been through this before? It just results in a sticky mess!
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Pinkspoons on October 24, 2005, 07:54:12 PM
I've contemplated getting it professionally tumbled - I managed to track a nearby company down that would do it for £20 per bottle. Would this get rid of the clouding, does anyone know?
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Tigerchips on October 24, 2005, 08:25:36 PM
Dirty decanter...

You had me all excited.  :roll:  :lol:

Please excuse my sense of humour.  :oops:
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Pinkspoons on October 24, 2005, 08:46:14 PM
Nope, no nude 'n' lewd glass engravings here. Well, not today, anyway.  :lol:
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Max on October 24, 2005, 09:44:16 PM
Quote from: "Pinkspoons"
I've contemplated getting it professionally tumbled - I managed to track a nearby company down that would do it for £20 per bottle. Would this get rid of the clouding, does anyone know?


Hi Pinkspoons

ParadiseTrader put this useful link on the GMB a while ago.  It's worth a look at to see some results of tumbling I think!  

http://www.bottletumbling.com/

I have to say I know nothing about tumbling glass personally...my own opinion is I'd think very hard about the value of what I was tumbling before I tumbled it!   :)
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Pinkspoons on October 24, 2005, 10:06:12 PM
Well I paid £65 for it... but it's worth somewhere around the £150 mark (when mint). Is it worth risking tumbling it? I suppose there are always the acid options (done professionally, of course).
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Max on October 24, 2005, 10:09:04 PM
Quote from: "Pinkspoons"
Well I paid £65 for it... but it's worth somewhere around the £150 mark (when mint). Is it worth risking tumbling it? I suppose there are always the acid options (done professionally, of course).


I'm out of my depth.  I don't know how good tumbling is, or whether acid would be better. :insert shrug emoticon here:  If you're going to sell it though, you'd have to admit restoration...but you knew that of course.  :)

xx
Title: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Pinkspoons on October 24, 2005, 11:16:24 PM
Holmegaard rarely leaves my grasp once it's there, so there's not much risk in it being sold.

I'm not quite sure what the attraction is, though, as a lot of it doesn't display very well and is admittedly overtly bland. T'is a mystery. I probably like it because it's subtle. Yes, I'll settle with that.
Title: Re: Dirty decanter...
Post by: kisslikeether on March 10, 2008, 10:55:40 AM
Hi I have had similar problems with items, Things to try are:

Cillit Bang
Steredent
Toothpaste - bicarbonate of soda type
Lead shot from an angling shop - swirl round with some liquid
Cerium Oxide - available from stone tumbling suppliers (also used for polishing out scratches)

Hope this helps!
Title: Re: Dirty decanter...
Post by: johnphilip on March 10, 2008, 01:58:55 PM
If its not too deep in the glass i find Viakal limescale remover works.
Title: Re: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Ivo on March 10, 2008, 06:12:59 PM
you can try every chemical under the sun - some things work on limescale (like Viacal)  others on biological deposits (like chlorine bleach). But no liquid is active on glass surface damage by etching. It will need mechanical action, tumbling or dremeling and it is hard work. Stay away from lead, use copper instead.
Title: Re: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Frank on March 11, 2008, 10:12:53 AM
Bottles and your decanter , as far as shape is concerned, are suited to tumbling but polishing would also be as effective. I would get prices for both approaches. Polishing tends to be done by restorers whereas tumbling is often by enthusiasts, although restorers probably have tumbling machines. Bottles worth thousands have been tumbled and the risk is low but should be discussed with a restorer who will tell you the pluses and minuses of each approach. Tumbling can be a lengthy process but it is not labour intensive once you have made your machine. Polishing is labour intensive but faster, although sometimes the tool has to be made for each job.
Title: Re: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Madbrit on March 11, 2008, 06:02:06 PM
Have you tried gently Ultrasounding it, most local electronics companies have them, i recently did this with a Walther Solifleur vase and i worked a tread, mind you the Walther is a serious lump of glass....Kev  8)
Title: Re: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Frank on March 11, 2008, 06:58:23 PM
I'd want be certain the piece was well annealed before subjecting it to ultrasound  :o exploding glass is not clean glass.
Title: Re: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Madbrit on March 11, 2008, 07:18:59 PM
thats true frank but a lot of populated printed circuit board are cleaned this way, and some of the components are glass, and extremely fragile, so it is a gentle clean rather than an aggressive clean...... and there is a way of cleaning glass using LCO2, but again great care must be taken.....Kev
Title: Re: Dirty decanter...
Post by: Taylor Thomas on March 11, 2008, 07:50:48 PM
When I was a kid I used to collect old bottles that I dug up from old dumps... I was told to clear them out first wash them then, then if they had anything that couldn't be removed put sand and water in and cover the top and shake.. It has been a while since I have done this....

Is this like using Bee Bee'?
I'm sure there is more knowledgable people on here though to give advice.......

Taylor