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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Margi on October 09, 2009, 06:04:31 PM

Title: Modern Daum France when did the signature change
Post by: Margi on October 09, 2009, 06:04:31 PM

Hello all encore.
I have got another Daum piece which I know is very modern and is imitating an older piece.  What I wished to know is that I read on the millers collectibles site that modern signatures now has Daum France and the cross of Lorraine - when did it change from just Daum France without the cross?

Title: Re: Modern Daum France when did the signature change
Post by: Sklounion on October 09, 2009, 07:31:02 PM

Cart before the horse, I'm afraid....
see this topic: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,28811.msg156375.html#msg156375
Do you have the Millers link please?

Title: Re: Modern Daum France when did the signature change
Post by: Margi on October 09, 2009, 08:12:18 PM

Sorry Marcus I have done so much research today I am getting all mixed up where I am finding info from.  The part re: the signature is here http://kovels.blogspot.com/2008/07/daum-mark.html and the website address for millers is www.millersantiquesguide.com

Title: Re: Modern Daum France when did the signature change
Post by: Sklounion on October 09, 2009, 08:41:50 PM

Plenty of really knowledgeable people on here, with years of experience, savoir-faire etc.... Mike M, Ivo, Ian Macky, the list of contributing GMB experts is a real international role of honour, of authors, collectors, researchers and dealers alike, but you do NEED to invest in books too.... the internet can only contribute so much....

and a pain in the rear like me.... not much... :24: :24:

Your garagiste buys his tools so he can fix your car.....

Your investment in books will help you sell your glass.....

 :D

Title: Re: Modern Daum France when did the signature change
Post by: Margi on October 09, 2009, 08:59:01 PM

Yes we appreciate everyones help very much.  I have been banned from buying the books as my daughter is getting me them for xmas, we have Ivo's on the list and Mark's so far and I am sure I could persuade my beautiful mother to get me some others too.  Which ones could anyone recommend that specialise in French glass (this one would be the top of my list seen as I am in France)  Thank you all for being so patient and helpful.

Title: Re: Modern Daum France when did the signature change
Post by: Mike M on October 10, 2009, 04:08:51 PM

Best by far for genreal French glass is

Le Genie Verrier De L'Europe

by G Cappa

you can usually find copies on french ebay

cheers

Mike

Title: Re: Modern Daum France when did the signature change
Post by: Mosquito on October 11, 2009, 08:47:14 AM

I might have to disagree slightly with Mike's recommendation here... Cappa is a great picture book with plenty of gorgeous items illustrated, but a surprising proportion of the attributions are questionable, especially for the less well known/ well documented makers. For example in the Sevres section, specifically pp.421-2, I see glass by Consolidated, Inwald and August Walther, all wrongly attributed to Sevres with no explanation why and no references given.  There are also many other attributions throughout the book which others have called into question, especially for older, unsigned pieces (though I don't have enough knowledge in this area to confirm if they are correct or not), and there are some quite speculative entries like that for Verlux.

While no book which offers such a broad overview is likely to be entirely error-free, it's the rationale underlying the attributions which worries me; for example on what basis did the author decide a Walther float bowl was by Sevres when it is unmarked and undocumented?

On the plus side, however, there are a great number of nicely illustrated examples by the acknowledged masters of French glassmaking and it is a very enjoyable book and not prohibitively expensive (I paid around £50.00 GBP for my copy).  So, on the whole I'd recommend it, but don't rely on it as a sole source for attributing a piece, especially if it is unsigned! :)

Steven

Title: Re: Modern Daum France when did the signature change
Post by: Margi on October 11, 2009, 12:33:39 PM

Thank you very much for your thoughts Steven,I would really like a french book which illustrates items but has a lot of reading about the glasshouses themselves.  I shall put this one on my list but take the attributions with a pinch of salt and also get some more and then I can hopefully see if they have conflicting attributions.

Title: Re: Modern Daum France when did the signature change
Post by: Mike M on October 11, 2009, 01:52:49 PM

Hi

yes Steven is quite right there are quite a few errors in Cappa

but there is nothing else to even come close to it as an alternative general French/European glass book -I can't comment on the text as my French isn't quite up to it! -there is a lot of it!

Cappa even has a piece of Bagley as VSL

-all that said -the accuracy of the book is higher than many others -but just not perfect

cheers

Mike

Title: Re: Modern Daum France when did the signature change
Post by: Margi on October 11, 2009, 04:14:57 PM

I have been convinced definately on my list now - can't wait for santa