Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => USA => Topic started by: Tramonto. on November 05, 2005, 11:16:12 PM
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Hi....I'd really appreciate any info/comments on a piece of glass I acquired recently at auction please.
The basket has a pontil mark and lots of stretched bubbles. Not sure if they are controlled though as some can be felt on the surface. Here is a closer pic.
Thanks!
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Please explain pontil mark - unfinished, coursely ground, gloss polished, flat, concave?
How big is it? Is the colour of the transparent glass greenish?
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I sure hope someone can give a definate answer to this because I see these a lot and IMHO I really don't care for them, but would love to know where they come from. Terry
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Hi Ivo
I'm afraid I'm not too up on pontil marks so I've tried to take a pic of it here
I did see someone describe one in an earlier post as being like an inverted belly button - a description which I think would fit this one. It isn't rough, or glossy, but kind of bobbled.
The basket is 45cm (18") tall and I would say that the transparent glass is more greyish than greenish.
I haven't made my mind up yet whether I actually like it or not, but I certainly find it interesting. I acquired it by default, along with a huge glass fish, as they were both included with a Jobling firecone bowl that I bought.
Thanks for helping.
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Wow what a huge piece. I think the pontil is a sand pontil which is used for large pieces. The pontil rod is dipped in sand before taking up the piece, so it breaks off easier after it is finished & leaves a sandy rough circular mark.
It does not, meanwhile, help very much with the identification - except that it is not finished as a piece of art glass. It could be Spanish or Belgian or from Romania or Poland.... they've all been known to make similar items at one time.
I also think it is more likely to have entered the country in a container than in someone's hand luggage.
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Hi Ivo
Many thanks for the info. A sand pontil fits in perfectly with the way it looks and feels, thats really interesting. I'm sure you're right about the container too, it would more than blow any hand luggage allowance...it's so big and heavy.
Frank, no probem, I did actually register months ago but I'd forgotten my password :oops: and so registered again recently.
Thanks again
Tramonto
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Hello,
Yes; that is an American piece of glass from the 1970s on. It was never made at any established glass company, which makes it rather hard to explain, but I will try my best.
Have you ever heard of Sooner Glass?
Here some examples.
To begin I have to admit to being a bit embarrassed for not remembering this person's name, but I do remember the details of a small human interest article written about him in the newspaper when he passed away about three years ago.
In the late 1950s an employee of the Kanawha glass company, in Dunbar, West Virginia began making and selling some glass items on his off time. He used whatever he could get his hands on from discarded company cullet to bottles and jars out of the trash. In the late 1960s he moved to Spiro, Okalahoma, where he worked for a company called Central Glass They made nothing of note, utilitarian glass items mainly.
There he formed a small group of glass making enthusiast-artist-hippie types and they all continued collecting discarded jars, bottles etc., making glass items and selling them under the "Sooner Glass" name. In case you want to know; The state of Okalahoma is known as "The Sooner State", (don't ask me why) and that is where they took their name from.
In the late 1970s this group split up, some went off and continued to make the same type of glass items, which they sold under the name "Cherokee Glass of Wagon Hill". Others went their own way, making the same type of glass items and selling them under the name "Becraft of the Ozarks".
Are you bored with this yet or am I only being full of myself, just assuming that you haven't already hit your back button and moved on to something interesting lol!
I can't say for sure if they are still making and selling their glass under those names or not, but I do know that they or someone else is still making the exact same type of glass items, in a few of the south western states and in Mexico as well. It is sold to tourists along the road sides and at gas stations.
The animated .Gif in the following link pretty much expresses how folks here feel about this type of glass.
http://www.ysartglass.com/forum/sooner.gif
Just like anything else there are likely a few dedicated collectors out there, but most pick it up at garage sales or flea markets. A bit of it gets listed on ebay and a lesser bit of that does sell. I believe the main problem is the weight of these items, which make them cost more to ship it than the items are actually worth at this time. Another factor is that they are so commonplace and it's impossible to tell the older apart from the newer unless they still have their original paper labels on them, but most people don't know the history, so they also wouldn't know one label from the other either.
Last of all; This type of glass often shows up in ebay auctions said to be Murano Glass or whatever else strikes one's fancy to call it. Going by what I have seen over time, by the colors and the style of the piece posted above I would say it was made by the "Becraft of the Ozarks" group.
I wish I could say it was something really special or even just OK, but I'm assuming we all want to know the real facts about our glass right?
Mike
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I haven't really done any genuine research on this type of glass, but I have been collecting glass etc., (new and old) for over 30 years and have seen many things once considered to be second hand junk turn into valuable collectables 10 or 20 years later.
What I know about this particular glass is based mainly on my living in the same time period it was made and of course seeing it for sale here and there when it was brand new, rather than in a second hand shop, so yes; I have seen my share of labeled examples.
My very first experience seeing shelves of those big nightmare-looking (my opinion) glass swan bowls they made left quite an impression in my head that I have never forgotten to this day.
I also tend to read anything about glass making, when that sort of story gets into our newspaper's Home & Garden or Arts section, so of course it was pretty easy for me to remember what I read, since I knew exactly what kind of glass the story was about and I also know all of the jokes and quips about that glass, which have been around a long time.
For one who is just discovering this kind of glass and is unaware of the stigma and jokes that have always been attached to it; the history may seem rather interesting and I admit; it really is an interesting story, but the glass pretty much speaks for itself and many people turn their noses up at it anyway, good history behind it or not.
I hate to be one who discourages another from liking and enjoying something they find to be special to them, but history is history, bad or good and history is continuously being made too, so I'm not poo-pooing your glass, only giving you the history of it so far.
I've seen many ugly glass ducklings turn out to be beautiful glass swans to someone else in my day. As they say; beauty is in the eye of the beholder and from life experience I know that each generation defines what beauty is to them.
Mike
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Mike, Thank you so much. As I said earlier I do see a lot of this around here and I even think I know of a piece with a lable. Its rather funny, but this past weekend when I was out "Antiquing" or maybe should say "Glassing" I saw what was probably the largest and most outrageous piece. It was a truly monumental cornicopia with applied flowers. I asked my companion if she would like to take it home.
Well needess to say if looks could kill, my funeral would have been today. Thanks again, Terry
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:D Hehe, how could I be offended with all this great info flooding in. Unfortunately I can't see the gif or other links though :cry: I did make a point of saying that I acquired this piece by default as it came with a Jobling bowl I was after at an auction...its not really the prettiest of pieces is it..just interesting.
[Thanks for moving it Javier - at least I know I haven't gone blind, I was searching for it on the Murano page....LOL]
I wonder if the fish that came with it is american too then, uh ho, where's my camera :wink:
Seriously, all info is gratefully received, good and bad. Thanks folks!
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Mike: I'm sure I've seen those swans advertised under the Rainbow label. My memory for patterns fades after a few years, so I might be wrong. Was that just a figment of my fevered imagination, or did some outfit called Rainbow churn out some of this rubbish as well? Or maybe something similarly awful?
:)
Cathy
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Hi Cathy Bannister,
I too have seen some ebay auctions claim that the large swans were by Rainbow and you are right; Rainbow did do some similar shaped swans, just not as big. Since their business was about making hand made "art glass" items; their glass is much more optically clear and the finishing work is done so much better.
The Sooner, Cherokee and Bcraft items tend to appear foggy and or gray looking in the colored areas and I assume it is because they were made from recycled glass, which in its original forms (jars bottles etc.) was not the same quality-type of glass used in making art glass. A side by side comparison says it a whole lot better than I can in words.
Both Kanawha and Rainbow glass were\are in West Virginia, not very far from one another and perhaps the Sooner, Cherokee and Bcraft swan designs etc., were inspired by items being made at Rainbow. There are or were many glass makers in West Virginia (a very small state) who produced hand made glass similar to the Murano Glass style.
Some of the better known glass makers, who made some Murano-style-type items are or were....
Blenko Glass - Milton, West Virginia
Bischoff Glass - Huntington, West Virginia (Many of their shape molds were purchased by the Indiana Glass Company, who made some reissues in the 1960s)
Hamon Glass - Scott Depot, West Virginia
Pilgrim Glass - Huntington, West Virginia
Viking Glass - New Martinsville, West Virginia
Morgantown Glass - Morgantown, West Virginia
Bonita Glass - Wheeling, West Virginia
Erikson Glass - Just across the Ohio River from West Virginia, in Bremen, Ohio
There were many more, not so large or well very known glass making businesses, plus a good deal of glass was being made by local individuals, at their homes.
I lived in western Pennsylvania and had relatives in southern Ohio and across the river in West Virginia. I remember visiting the area often in the 1960s and early 1970s and it was like a glass making Mecca at that time, The three major industries in the area were coal, steel and glass. One could drive through towns in West Virginia and see big displays of hand made glass items for sale in the front yards of residents, who usually worked at one of the many glass factories and who had a small set-up at home for making their own items. These items tend to be impossible to ID when found today, since these folks didn't sign their work, nor did they invest any money to put paper labels on it.
When the first big oil and gasoline shortage came about in the 1970s; most had to give their glass making hobbies up because of the high fuel costs. Today; in hindsight I wish I would have thought to photograph the sights and all of the glass I saw back then, but sadly I was too young to be so sensible and had no psychic abilities either lol!
Personally I believe all glass (no matter who made it) has its own unique characteristics. Some prefer the very refined, high quality glass, some prefer the middle of the road type and some prefer the more rustic type. Me; I admit to being a snob in the area of glass that I like, but I am almost certain that I wouldn't enjoy my glass collecting hobby as much if everyone else liked and collected the same thing as me.
Glass is somewhat like music in that sense.
Mike