Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: kmax70 on February 18, 2010, 11:26:05 AM
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I am looking for some help in identifying this green decanter which has been in my family for several generations. It stands approx. 10.5in/27cm tall, has a tear drop hollow inside the otherwise solid stopper which is decorated with applied glass rosettes. These are repeated on the applied "drip" band around the neck. The base is made up of concentric circles. It is similar to cranberry glass only in this attractive olive green. It has what I assume are water scale marks on the inside - any ideas how these could be removed safely? Many thanks for any help. KM.
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hello KM. I will leave it the experts to hopefully give you an id and some possible history of the piece. However, don't think there is any point in likening the decanter to Cranberry - something is made specificatlly to produce the cranberry colour, or it is not. Shape will not influence the attribution, neither will the texture or the weight. When you refer to 'water scale' - do you know for a fact that it was water only that the piece contained, or might it have been alchohol of some sort. As a suggestion for cleaning, you might try some hard rice, slightly moistened, and then stand in the kitchen for two days, shaking vigorously (not you of course, just the decanter ;D) - you might try putting 'Brasso' in with the rice. Coca Cola (or similar) might help - or even a standard proprietary lime scale remover cud work.
With some of these cleaning problems, you might have to try a variety before you have success - depending on the severity and nature of the staining. However, whatever you use to scour inside the piece, it is essential you wash out the decanter very thoroughly before consuming any later contents. Paul S.
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Probably what we sometimes refer to as Austro /Germanic similar ones often turn up on ISIT WHITEFRIARS but it is not . sorry thats the best i can do, bring on the experts . :huh:
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Thanks for the help so far, Paul and John. I will try the cleaning methods suggested. I had not even thought along the "Is it Whitefriars?" lines - I have some Whitefriars glass, and this is completely different. As far as I know it is quite an old decanter - it in my grandmother's effects and she was 86 when she died in the 1950s, so I am thinking "antique". It doesn't look like British glass, but I could be mistaken there. KM.
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I would think around 100 years .Only a guess
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There is in antique terms a great misunderstanding about grandmothers. They never bought anything when they were 6 and rather waited until they were in their twenties.
I think this one might be Dansih - which someone will deny soon, I hope.
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This grandmother was 86 when she died in 1952 so antique would still apply, and I don't think she had bought anything like that since about 1910 - widowhood and ensuing reduced means saw to that. KM.
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Having flicked through some of the more obvious tomes, I can't find anything that would really indicate Danish origin. My initial thought was Germanic.
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;D
I'm watching this thread with great interest - I think it's absolutely gorgeous.
I've noticed the prunts have a daisy motif on them, does this help any with id?
(I wouldn't be too upset if it was mine and I got no id, I'd just love it, every day, no way would I part with it.)
For the purposes of display, to remove the appearance of stains, I believe some folk resort to an incredibly fine coating inside, of silicon grease.
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But then definitely don't drink from it! :o
Colourwise I'd have suspected German as well - I have a small jug marked Made in the DDR in this colour but a much simpler style. It's quite thin glass as the decanter appears to be?
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Thanks all. I am fairly sure that this decanter predates the DDR by some 40 - 50 years at least.
I would love to know how to apply the silicon grease through such a narrow opening? All my attempts to clean off the marks inside the vessel have failed utterly.
As for looking through the books - the only thing I have found that is remotely like it is in Miller's Antiques guide - a late 17th century roemer in tinted green glass with applied prunts - it has the same type of concentric ringed base. Somehow I don't think mine is quite that old, but one lives in hope! KM.
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I suspect a "carrier" of some sort of solvent would be the way to go about it, but I honestly don't know.
Something in the back of my (very leaky) brain is telling me Ivo said something about this, maybe about 5-6 years ago.........
I'v also read that there are ways of getting the insides of decanters polished, which might be a bit costlier and certainly time-consuming, but this is such a beautiful beast I think it would be well worth getting it sorted.
Polishing it would mean you could use it.
Warning! If you do find a solvent and use it, do not, under any circumstances, decide to "burn it off".
I one used methanol to rinse a decanter, then (very stupidly) thought;
"I know, I'll put a flame at the top, to burn off the excess solvent...."
WHOOOOSH.
An enormous flame exploded with an almighty bang. Gave me an awful fright....
and I was very lucky that's all it gave me!
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Sounds an exciting way to go! Sounds like our Christmas pudding that was liberally laced with brandy that it wouldn't go out.
I don't think I actually want to use the decanter - that way damage lies. Just want to display it amongst my other glass pieces.
I'd like to know a bit more about it so that my daughters will know what they are inheriting once I pop my clogs.
KM.
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A guy in Brackley Northampton , Basil Loveridge does a great job polishing out most of the dealers use him with great results
cost i believe around the 10 to 15 pounds well worth it. The info for him is somewhere on the forum . if you cant find it let me know . jp
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KM, I wasn't suggesting yours was the same age, just flagging up that the colour was known in German glass. :thup: Glassworks spanned more years than the political masters of any state. ;)
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Thanks, Anne. How true. I should have thought of that. :-[
I now have another direction in which to search. It is certainly an unusual colour for any British glass that I have seen.
My grandfather used to go to auction sales in some of the big houses in North London at the turn of the century, so it may have been picked up during one of his forays. KM.
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A guy in Brackley Northampton , Basil Loveridge does a great job polishing out most of the dealers use him with great results
cost i believe around the 10 to 15 pounds well worth it. The info for him is somewhere on the forum . if you cant find it let me know . jp
If you could point me in the direction of Basil Loveridge's address I would be most grateful. I think it would be worth the effort to get it cleaned up. It looks awful when the light catches it at the moment. KM.
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Basils number 01280706490 Give him a call maybe you can post as its a long way .jp
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Basils number 01280706490 Give him a call maybe you can post as its a long way .jp
Many thanks for that. KM.
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Either I now own this decanter or I have just bought one exactly the same from eBay. It was listed as Venetian, but now I have it in my hands it is clearly not that. The stopper peg has a very English/Edwardian look and feel to it. There is a very similar decanter in the Whitefriars section on the Bristol Blue Glass Museum web site. I have asked them about it and they say the auction house they got their decanter set from listed it as Whitefriars. The colour way matches some other English glass that I have, but that glass is not probably not Whitefriars. The colour does not match my other dark green Whitefriars pieces of the same period. It doesn't have the usual polished Whitefriars pontil, but the pontil is so recessed that it would not be possible to polish it. It says to me, I am quaiity and craft. I am open to suggestions.
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i have a pcture in front of me of german waldglas looks very similar.
stew
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Stew,
Check it out here, with frills on the neck instead of a ring with prunts.
http://www.museum.bristolblueglass.com/decanter-tray-set-and-roemer-style-glasses-ca-1900/
I have asked Bristol Glass Museum and they said that Fieldings and Bonhams have said it's Whitefriars. I have a couple of hundred decanters and the build quality definately fits English late Victorian to Edwardian, but I am not so certain it is Whitefriars. I have both the Lesley Jackson and Museum of London Whitefriars books, and it's not in them.
Thanks Kevin
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I would take B&M auction attributions with a pinch salt (and the Bristol Glass museum website can't spell Whitefriars). And I don't think it's waldglass: too dark in colour.
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:angel: :angel:
It's SURELY earlier than 1900?
a2
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Kevin, I'm still not convinced it's English, gorgeous though it is. Have you checked Stephan Buse's amazing site here: http://www.roemer-aus-theresienthal.de/ which has similar pieces? Stephan is a member of the board http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=profile;u=4046 so it'd be worth asking him to take a look at your decanter.
I'll tweak the topic heading too to see if that helps attract other opinions.
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Hi folks
I am absolutely amazed that this decanter has provoked so much interest. I first posted in February last year, and had almost forgotten about it. The said decantert is now sitting in my collection looking very smug at the amount of comment it has produced. Thanks to all for your help, and please do tweak the title. I would love to get a definite id. on this. KM.
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Most certainly not British.
German, German, German ;) :) Oh, c1890.
Why on earth do folks set so much store by auction houses. More, why on earth would a museum take an auction house attribution without having done their own work? Makes me worry about that museum frankly.
You will find many other auction house attributions as being Whitefrairs/Powell, including Christies - that doesn't make them right, just uninformed. EDIT: After all glass has always been the poor relation, with little true appreciation in the auction world; mainly because you have to work at an attribution 'cos there's no handy backstamp on much glass :o
Nigel
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I totally doubted the Bristol Blue Glass Museum, particularly as they split White Friars into 2 words, and as I have had such great bargains out of auction houses when they don't recognise stuff I wouldn't believe them either. That's why I was punting around until I found this bottle. Why I think it's English:- The colour is an exact match for a jug I have that looks like it is straight out of the family of jugs on page 99 of the Jackson Whitefriars book. I have a lot of Edwardian decanters (including known English ones, Whitefriars, Stevens & Williams, Dresser, Webb) and the quality and shape of the stopper peg is just like those. I have a venetian claret jug with a prunt on the stopper, and the way the stopper is made is so different. I don't have any German decanters (or I don't think I do) so am not sure if they cut their stoppers the same way as the English makers.
The colour doesn't match any of my Whitefriars of the same period. I ploughed through that Theresienthal website and the colour looks too dark compared to the similar stuff that is there.
I think the biggest clue to origin must be on the Bristol Blue Glass website, as their decanter is obivously by the same maker, and more than that, it is a decanter set with 6 glasses and a glass tray. So the big question must be; who makes decanters sets on a glass try?
kamx70, I am so pleased I don't have your decanter.
Kind Regards
Kevin
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i really dont know much about glass but i see what i see . it has the same spun glass base the punts look the same and colour looks very close
http://www.glaswolf.de/uploads/tx_extendedshop/r123.jpg (http://www.glaswolf.de/uploads/tx_extendedshop/r123.jpg)
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Kevin,
I notice that nobody has welcomed you to the GMB, so I guess since I've answered your question as to origin, I should have done so. It's good that you've dropped in.
The Bristol Museum is most certainly not the place to start, however it's good to see that at least one other person on the GMB has got the idea and given you a good link. Thank you Stew :thup:
Please forget trying to link to a UK company or maker, and do some research into German glass of the turn of last century. BTW, the Germans made sets of glass with glass trays, used this colour, the trailing around the foot, and prunts.
Nigel
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Ohhh I'm remiss in not noticing that you are new too, Kevin, welcome. :)
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What a great site. I have ploughed through that site and come to the conclusion it must be German. I have also found that I do have another German decanter as one of my triple ring mushroom top decanters has exactly the same oak leaf motif listed as a similar triple ring mushroom top decanter, listed as Biedermeier.
Now the dilemma; what do I do with 2 rather nice German cockoos in my English nest, are there other unknown foreigners? I have already let some Venetians in, and my house can only take so much. Collecting glass has become so much like world politics. LOL
To introduce myself, I have been collecting glass about 20 years. I started with decanters, but it quickly diversified. I particularly like early Whitefriars.
Kevin.
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Steady on Kevin the PC brigade are watching must not use the F word even the long version . welcome to the GMB , yes you are welcome , no mods i am not complaining about the above but i could have, just proves a point tho . :angel:
Regarding your decanter i see Nigel agrees with my earlier suggestion . good old Nige jp
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Honestly, I was only joking. It's really about the philosophy of collecting. Are we collecting like a stamp collector trying to fill in the gaps you have got or get rare colours etc.. or going for the the asthetic and know no boundaries. I go for the asthetic but try to stay within boundaries, but when you see something quality, beautiful, skillfull and cheap, boundaries are there to be broken.
I have a pair of green carafes with prunts on and a roemer style bowl, I think they are German too. That German glass website has been a learning experience.
Kevin
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JP is going over the top again Kevin because he will makes jokes and remarks that not everyone appreciates from a PC viewpoint and gets some of his comments pulled. There is nothing non-PC in your comments, so no need to apologise.
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:angel: :angel:
Kevin: Spelling police! :no: Aesthetic. Skilful. Got to keep standards up old bean! ;D
a2
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Glass Message Board = discussions about glass; not politics, spelling, political correctness, or any other old codswallop (although of the aforesaid, codswallop does have a glass connection! ;D)