Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Andy on March 17, 2010, 09:45:58 AM
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Some years ago , i found a large lot of glasses , plates , finger bowls at the local auction,
they had been hidden away in a cellar for many many years, and were very dirty!
I could see the quality, and was lucky enough to win them at auction.
I thought they were c1880, but as the years have gone by , i think they are earlier, maybe Regency
I will put pics of the glasses in another post.
The plates are interesting, I have found almost identical in 'Millers collecting glass' Sarah Yates, Mark West, David McCarron, page 133, describes the plate shown as 'glass plates rare before the advent of pressed glass, this Irish one(C1820)has simple star cutting under the base and a low flat decorated rim, fruit or dessert'
It looks like it has the same frosted base.
I remember reading that acid etching was not invented until mid 19th Century, would mine be frosted by acid etching or another method.
Theyve got a value of £200 ! and ive got 15 !!, so would be nice to find out more ;D
Any help welcome, Cheers Andy
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I will post more of the glasses in a new post, heres the collection and one pic of glasses, lovely stems ;D
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Message from oldglassman (posted on a different thread)
" Hi , Had a look at your plates and i am sorry to say they are not really in my field of expertise, lol If i have any at all , I am not sure that I agree with the comment that plates are rare before the advent of pressing , I have several 18thc plates ,including some 18thc lynn plates so I think we will have to wait for the 19th and 20thc experts to give there opinions ,though the bases look like they may have had a kind of sand blasting as opposed to acid frosting , but hey!! thats a stab in the dark ,
What a great haul though to find so many very useable plates that certainly have some age and quality ,
Good luck with finding out about them
Cheers ,
Peter "
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I'm confused a bit - is this good news or not so good news :-\
I hope good news for you.
m
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Im not sure :-\
Ivos book says sand blasting invented in 1870, i was leaning towards an earlier date though.
Any other ideas on whether frosting is sand blasted, acid etched or something else ??
The pattern around the edge is also etched/frosted.
There is a ridge around the base , i feel the frosted base has lost a millimetre, in the process of
frosting, how ever it was done.
ivos book says 1857 development of Acid engraving, so if the plates are done with either of these
tecniques, that would make them last half 19thC.
Unless someone has another theory on how it was done, the edges make me think machine etched??
Heres a couple of close ups.
Any suggestions welcome
Cheers
Andy
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Looks too "rough" to be acid etched.
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Andy
Etched, to me, always means acid was used. The leaves on your plates are wheel engraved not etched. The base is definitely not etched. Another method of mechanical frosting is wheel roughing but typically you would see some directionality to the decoration and I don't see any in your photo.
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Thanks Christine and Sid,
I can see the machine wheel engraved marks on the pattern.
The ridge around the frosted base, makes me think its more likely machine ground ,
i think the base has lost too much glass to be acid or sand blasted, if that makes sense.
More photos below, the base feels silky smooth.
Im sure it must have been ground down somehow
:-\
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Could machine grinding have made that texture though? Could the rim have been created by machine grinding, and then the texture made by sandblasting perhaps?
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I dont know Cathy :-\
The reason there is a rim, is that was the original smooth curved polished base, and the frosting process has removed enough glass to leave the rim.
(thats a lot of blasting or Acid! )
I may email Mark West and see if he remembers whether the example in the book has a frosted base,
its not clear from the photo
:)
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But how do you know the frosting process took away the glass leaving the rim? Couldn't that glass have been removed by grinding, and then the texture/frosting applied afterwards?
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Actually, does that frosting look overshot, perhaps?
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But how do you know the frosting process took away the glass leaving the rim? Couldn't that glass have been removed by grinding, and then the texture/frosting applied afterwards?
That seems quite possible, not sure what you mean by "overshot" Cathy ?
I emailed Mark West, who has been a dealer/collector of Antique glass for many years, he used to have a
lovely shop, but now just a website http://www.markwest-glass.com/
He hasnt got a copy of his own book ::) , but had a quick look at this link, he reckons, not machine ground,
but acid, very popular mid 19th C, which would mean a date circa 1857 or thereabouts.
I must put the accompanying glasses on the board, and see if opinion of date is similar.
Cheers
Andy
:D
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It has all the hallmarks of sandblasting and it was only done on the surface so the ridge was there before blasting.
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Thanks Frank :P confusion continues ::)
The ridge has no real purpose , it was definitely just left after the frosting was done, the inner surface
of the bowl is smooth.
In fact , ive just had an even closer look, on the surface of the ridge, there are tool marks all the
way round, im thinking Cathys idea of it being machine ground first is most likely.
(does it matter, well not really, but its intruiging, isnt it ;D )
I think i may have captured the tool marks, here, every inch or so, round the ridge.