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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Paul S. on April 15, 2010, 06:39:38 PM

Title: confirmation for possible 'pompeian' glass please.
Post by: Paul S. on April 15, 2010, 06:39:38 PM

to my uneducated eyes this looks as though it might be 'pompeian'  -  which I understand was produced mainly but not exclusively by Walsh.  Height is about 3.7/8", and at the bottom of the inside it opens out slightly into a smallish cavity.   Was 'pompeian' made in this shade of blue?    Snapped pontil mark, and a bit off-centre at the base, and some noticeable 'stones' in the metal.   However, what bothers me is that for what should be an oldish piece of glass (late Victorian?) there is almost zero base wear on the underside - has this sort of production been seen from China in recent times i.e. anyone think this is a modern copy?   What would this sort of small glass have been used for - medicine perhaps.        No reaction under the torch, incidentally.        thanks for looking, and very grateful for any replies.         

Title: Re: confirmation for possible 'pompeian' glass please.
Post by: Ivo on April 15, 2010, 07:27:39 PM

sorry this is Egyptian glass.

Title: Re: confirmation for possible 'pompeian' glass please.
Post by: Paul S. on April 15, 2010, 09:05:50 PM

arghhhhh  -  I thought the bottom was a bit too clean and shiny.     oh well, I will put it into a charity shop, and so I still don't have a piece of 'pompeian'.    many thanks Ivo.     

Title: Re: confirmation for possible 'pompeian' glass please.
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 16, 2010, 06:36:44 AM

Walsh tends to have oversized shiny pontil marks

Title: Re: confirmation for possible 'pompeian' glass please.
Post by: Bernard C on April 16, 2010, 08:42:09 AM

Paul — I've handled a fair amount of unmarked Walsh Pompeian and its lookalikes, and I still wouldn't positively Id unfamiliar pieces as Walsh unless I found the pattern in Reynolds, either in Pompeian or in one of the similar ranges like Iridescent.

Why?

Well I've seen very convincing brand new Pompeian on sale in the souvenir shops at Segedunum and Arbeia, much more so than your Egyptian piece.

btw only two weeks ago I saw for the first time my favourite treasure of any museum, the birthday party invitation sent by Claudia Severa, wife of the Briga garrison commander, Aelius Brocchus, to Sulpicia Lepidina, wife of the Vindolanda garrison commander, Flavius Cerialis, see here (http://vindolanda.csad.ox.ac.uk/4DLink2/4DACTION/WebRequestTablet?thisLeafNum=1&thisLeafSide=back&searchTerm=291&searchType=number&searchField=TVII&thisListPosition=1&displayImage=1&displayLatin=1&displayEnglish=1&displayAllLeaves=1).   It's quite stunning, but modestly displayed, so modestly that in the half hour I spent looking at it and the other tablets on display, not one other person examined it — and in a busy British Museum on a Saturday!   Those last four lines, penned by Severa herself rather than by her scribe, are quite beautiful, and easy to read once you get used to the script.

I can't help wondering how much Pompeian glass Severa and Lepidina had in their homes.

Bernard C.  8)

Title: Re: confirmation for possible 'pompeian' glass please.
Post by: Paul S. on April 16, 2010, 03:12:14 PM

Bernard - thanks for the interesting reply.    My knowledge of 'pompeian' - as you can tell - is almost non-existant..........When Walsh 'pompeian' is marked, what would I expect to see.    The genuine thing must be a little thin on the ground in my area, I don't recall seeing it before, but I will now be careful in the future  -  I don't want any more Egyptian pieces!
Quite agree that the lines penned by Severa are beautiful, and it's very moving to think that you are looking at the real thing (earliest known writing in Latin by a woman - so its says) - I admire your patience to read in Latin  -  think I would have gone for the translation.   But the script surprises me  -  didn't expect it would be quite like that - a vast array of uprights, so completely  different from  the Carolingian cursive scripts that came in a few hundred years later.
Historically, when we speak of 'pompeian' glass  -  does this mean it had to have been made in that city  -  bearing in mind that Pompeii went down the tubes in AD 79, and I assume Severa and her family were around in 2nd century AD  -  or was it simply a 'bubbled style  -  bit like a 2nd century wfrs.
Makes me think of Kenneth Williams staggering backwards, shouting..........infamy, infamy...they've got it in for me. (sorry ;D)
Thanks also to Christine for her helpful suggestions re the pontil marks on the genuine article.

Title: Re: confirmation for possible 'pompeian' glass please.
Post by: Bernard C on April 17, 2010, 08:19:36 AM

Sinister, dexter, sinister, dexter, .....  ;D

Paul — I think Pompeian was just Walsh's name for Roman bubbly glass (with random bubbles, not like the regimented spirals or rings of bubbles found in modern Whitefriars).

I'd not thought about the Roman handwritten script in that way.   It must have died out quite quickly in the fifth centuy with a discontinuity of several generations between that and modern scripts.   I had to look up "Carolingian" to see what you meant, and realised that you were talking about the early forms that developed into black letter type, which I can also read, as I used to be an antiquarian bookseller, having had a number of Acts of Parliament and Civil War tracts through my hands.   I'm sure that somewhere I still have Henry Burton's The Grand Impostor Unmasked with this frontispiece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wenceslas_Hollar_-_Trial_of_Laud_(State_2).jpg), his wonderful attack on Laud, spitting vitriol with every word.

My experience of pontil scar finishes on Pompeian is somewhat different to Christine's.   All I have seen have either been ground out and polished or just had the sharp bits smoothed off.   Note that all ruby (pink/cranberry) Pompeian in my experience is crystal cased ruby, and that includes the two pieces shown in Reynolds.

Bernard C.  8)

Title: Re: confirmation for possible 'pompeian' glass please.
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 17, 2010, 12:05:47 PM

Quote

been ground out and polished

Isn't that what I said?

I only have one piece I think is Pompeian and that and the pieces of Walsh Primrose I have all have oversized pontil marks (2 inch) compared with anything else I have.