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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: jonchellycain on April 26, 2010, 01:21:10 PM

Title: Scottish or maybe WMF ?? Id = Royal Brierley (Stevens & Williams)
Post by: jonchellycain on April 26, 2010, 01:21:10 PM
Hi all
Today in an antiques centre i found this dish which was marked as "old Monart glass bowl".
I dont think it is Monart but does anybody know what it actually is?
Quite nicely made with a polished pontil on the base, i didnt measure it but it was around 30cms in diameter ish
many thanks
michelle
Sorry pictures are not great but taken on my phone

http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/14/37/17/66/img_0112.jpg
http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/14/37/17/66/img_0113.jpg
http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/14/37/17/66/img_0114.jpg
http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/14/37/17/66/img_0115.jpg
Title: Re: monart dish.. i dont thinks so, but what is it, Scottish or maybe WMF ??
Post by: Paul S. on April 26, 2010, 01:46:42 PM
looks attractive Michelle.    Do you remember if it was cased in clear?
Title: Re: monart dish.. i dont thinks so, but what is it, Scottish or maybe WMF ??
Post by: jonchellycain on April 26, 2010, 02:14:26 PM
from memory i dont think it was cased although the foot was clear glass.
here's a couple more pics
http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/14/37/17/66/img_0116.jpg
http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/14/37/17/66/img_0117.jpg
http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/14/37/17/66/img_0118.jpg
many thanks for your interest Paul
I think i may pop back tomorrow and get some more details
thanks
michelle
Title: Re: monart dish.. i dont thinks so, but what is it, Scottish or maybe WMF ??
Post by: Max on April 26, 2010, 03:31:56 PM
Nice looking bowl...where's the antiques centre?  >:D
Title: Re: monart dish.. i dont thinks so, but what is it, Scottish or maybe WMF ??
Post by: chopin-liszt on April 26, 2010, 03:49:19 PM
Nazeing, I believe.

(as in actual Nazeing, not the stuff that looks like Nazeing but isn't... and that isn't Scottish either!)
Title: Re: monart dish.. i dont thinks so, but what is it, Scottish or maybe WMF ??
Post by: jonchellycain on April 26, 2010, 04:46:18 PM
thanks sue, should have thought of that really, i have a little dish somewhere in the same colour
many thanks
michelle
Title: Re: Scottish or maybe WMF ?? - ID = Nazeing
Post by: chopin-liszt on April 26, 2010, 05:14:56 PM
The distinctive feature of Nazeing is the exact sort of bubble it has - with the cloudy bit of deeper coloured enamel around it.
....Although Grey-Stan can have similar bubbles, it usually has more colours - Nazeing does not tend to come in more than two colours, and Grey-Stan is normally of slightly superior quality - it's also harder to find.
Title: Re: Scottish or maybe WMF ?? - ID = Nazeing
Post by: jonchellycain on April 26, 2010, 07:07:25 PM
thanks for the ID and extra info Sue your a star
Title: Re: Scottish or maybe WMF ?? - ID = Nazeing
Post by: Bernard C on April 26, 2010, 09:33:10 PM
Michelle — interesting, the enthusiasm for a Nazeing attribution.   First on my list of possibilities would be 1930s Royal Brierley (Stevens & Williams).   If you buy it, please would you bring it to the National on 9th May.   I would appreciate the opportunity to examine it.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Scottish or maybe WMF ?? - ID = Nazeing
Post by: jonchellycain on April 26, 2010, 09:54:04 PM
Sorry Bernard i wont be buying this one, it was more from an interest point of view to be honest, i knew it wasnt Monart, but was interested in finding out what it actually was.
Unfortunitly wont be able to make it to the national this time around either as im setting up at a little fair in Cottenham cambridge on the 9th may also
I can get you a few more pictures if that would help
many thanks
michelle
Title: Re: Scottish or maybe WMF ?? - ID = Nazeing
Post by: Bernard C on April 27, 2010, 04:23:06 AM
Michelle — thanks for the offer, but more photographs won't help.   I've just had another look at your photos, and can't decide between Nazeing and RB(S&W) — not sure now which I prefer.   The difficulty is that both seem to have used a similar process for their cloudy glass (as distinct from Keith Murray Cased Bubbly), and there is nothing on the RB(S&W) version published.

Bernard C.  8)

Title: Re: Scottish or maybe WMF ??
Post by: nigel benson on April 30, 2010, 01:05:19 PM
Hello,

Yes, Bernard was on the right track in the first place. This bowl is RB/S&W.

I have been unable to get onto the GMB, but that wizzard Anne has sorted out the gremlins for me  :) :)

Cheers, Nigel
Title: Re: Scottish or maybe WMF ??
Post by: Paul S. on April 30, 2010, 01:30:16 PM
hello Nigel  -  always good to have a postive attribution.     As I have commented elsewhere, some of these pre-war colourways are confusing to the un-educated like myself.     For the benefit of anyone else like me, are you able to describe why it is RB/S&W, rather than Nazeing - which it appeared to me    thanks in advance.   Paul S.
Title: Re: Scottish or maybe WMF ??
Post by: paulbowen on April 30, 2010, 02:26:42 PM
What is R&B?  And, am I correct in assuming that S&W is Stevens & Williams?  Thank you.
Title: Re: Scottish or maybe WMF ??
Post by: Paul S. on April 30, 2010, 02:35:12 PM
Paul  -  scroll back a little to Bernard's comments, and all will be revealed.   Paul S.
Title: Re: Scottish or maybe WMF ??
Post by: paulbowen on April 30, 2010, 02:39:54 PM
Thanks.
Title: Re: Scottish or maybe WMF ??
Post by: chopin-liszt on April 30, 2010, 07:02:33 PM
 :-[

Thank you so much for the correction, Nigel  :hiclp: - I'm clearly very wrong about this!
I know very little about S&W and all I know of RB is the studio-type range designed by the Harris family for them.

This is not my era of glass at all, but I did think I could tell Nazeing from Monart and the unidentified stuff nearly always labeled as "scottish glass".  :-[ :-[ :-[

How does one tell the difference between Nazeing and S&W?
Is it the shape of the bowl? (ie, a non-standard-for-Nazeing shape)

or is there more to it than that?

 
Title: Re: Scottish or maybe WMF ??
Post by: nigel benson on April 30, 2010, 07:38:35 PM
Hello,

In brief, the difference is evident because of a number of characteristics, including, the weight and therefore the thickness of the glass, the colour saturation/brightness, the shape, and the way the pontil is finished.

Research in the S&W Description books confirms the production of their version.

Nigel

Title: Re: Scottish or maybe WMF ??
Post by: Paul S. on April 30, 2010, 07:45:40 PM
thanks Nigel  -  however, sounds like its a tricky one for us amateurs - we'll have to come to you each time we are unsure :)   your help is appreciated, and well spotted by Bernard.   
Title: Re: Scottish or maybe WMF ??
Post by: chopin-liszt on April 30, 2010, 08:15:24 PM
 :hiclp:
That's quite a lot of help, Nigel. Thanks ever so much!
I don't have the S&W book, though I do have a beautiful tazza that last year somebody suggested to me might be S&W. I'll have to get images and post them, it's a lovely thing. Older than my usual sort of thing, I bought it for it's beautiful and subtle colours and because it has lovely raspberry prunts.

The strange feature my friend found out when handling it was when he tapped it gently was that it rang... and rang..... and rang... a beautiful pure clear tone for an incredibly long time.

I hadn't expected such a shallow and slightly ribbed dish to do something like that.
It's very unusual.
My friend said that might be an indication of S&W?
Title: Re: Scottish or maybe WMF ??
Post by: nigel benson on April 30, 2010, 08:33:05 PM
Hi Sue,

There is no book on S&W - just in case anyone else thought so too. The Description Books are the records/pattern books correct name, but it can lead to confusion, especially if you've not been lucky enough to go through any of them  ;) :)

As for resonance, that can be indicative of pre-war Powell, but I guess may well happen with S&W as well.

Nigel
Title: Re: Scottish or maybe WMF ??
Post by: Paul S. on April 30, 2010, 08:34:22 PM
I've just tried 'pinging' a known Nazeing bowl, and the ring was o.k. but nothing special.   But a couple of oldish Wfrs. bowls (large diameter and shallow), almost knocked me out of the room.    I suspect it may be as much to do with the shape and thickness as anything else.
Title: Re: Scottish or maybe WMF ??
Post by: Paul S. on April 30, 2010, 08:35:23 PM
sorry, the above obviously crossed with Nigel's post.     Paul S.
Title: Re: Scottish or maybe WMF ??
Post by: nigel benson on April 30, 2010, 08:40:57 PM
Hi Paul,

Quote
its a tricky one for us amateurs

Although my answer might not be written in such a way that you will get it immediately, its pointers will set you on the right road. More importantly it will make you work, which believe me will do you more good, as when it clicks it will stand you in good stead for a lot more diagnosing and give a great deal more confidence :) ;) :)

Just rember we were all there once.....and you're further on than someone else whose just started  ;)

Anyway, if I put it all down here what will I have left to write in my autobiography? :o 8) ;) :)

Nigel
Title: Re: Scottish or maybe WMF ??
Post by: nigel benson on April 30, 2010, 08:46:00 PM
Paul,

I would say the result of 'pinging' is more dependant on the metal , although the shape will help. For instance there are two Monart shapes that ring, but the rest tend to go down the route of a dull 'dong'.

Nazeing has a brighter sound than Monart, but does not resonate.

Nigel
Title: Re: Scottish or maybe WMF ?? Id = Royal Brierley (Stevens & Williams)
Post by: jonchellycain on May 02, 2010, 04:56:42 PM
many thanks all for the ID on this one, plus some great tips to remember  :thup:
cheers
michelle
Title: Re: Scottish or maybe WMF ?? Id = Royal Brierley (Stevens & Williams)
Post by: Bernard C on June 06, 2010, 05:33:53 PM
For the possible finale? see http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,34114.0.html

Bernard C.  8)