Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: paulbowen on April 30, 2010, 02:48:53 PM
-
Hi Everyone, the discussion of the "Scottish, maybe WMF" (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,33152.0/topicseen.html) bowl was really helpful to me with identifying several mystery pieces that I've seen over the years, thanks very much. I have a question: does anyone know if Nazeing, or a similar British manufacturer of "cluthra" type glass, ever used sulphur in their bubbles? I have seen several examples of a type of glass that is very similar to this Nazeing stuff, but with sulphur (yellow) bubbles. Any ideas? All feedback would be appreciated; it's like my own personal "cellophane glass" mystery. Also, where can I learn more about Nazeing and similar glass? I quick browse of the web revealed a few photos, but the results were rather general. Thanks again. :)
-
Hello Paul,
The only book that has any depth about Nazeing glass is the one by Geoff Timberlake, called "75 Years of Diverse Glass-making to the World"; A celebration of Nazeing Glass Works 1928-2003 and an exploration of their Victorian origins. This was self-published by Geoff in 2003 and coincided with tour exhibition "Nazeing Glass andd its Origins" held at Lowewood Museum, Hoddesdon. I have a small amount of information on my website about it and Nazeing glass - which I've just checked and I'm afraid has some glitches :huh: :huh: - I will try to get that sorted out ASAP :thup:
I have to say I do not recognise the description of yellow bubbles in Nazeing items.
For technical information about Nazeing glass, I think you either have to hope that Stephen Pollock-Hill catches this discussion, or you should email him at Nazeing Glass.
I hope that helps a bit, Nigel
-
Thank you very much, I really appreciate it. I'll have to engage my wife in getting some pics of my odd sulphur "cluthra" vases up on the board here, she's the family tech guru. Until then, though, I'm really struck by their similarity to these Scottish items. Thank you again.
-
:)
I was of the impression that "Cluthra" referred specifically to designs by Christopher Dresser, Cluthra being an ancient name for the Clyde (the river Glasgow stands on),
and, while the few beautiful pieces I've seen do have tinly flecks of colour, that the bubbles were just clear bubbles.
-
Hi Sue,
I think your thinking about Clutha (without the 'r'), which was made by James Couper and Sons, Scotland with designs by C Dresser and Walton.
Cluthra is a similar type of look to Nazeing et al, but made by Steuben.
Nigel ;)
-
:kissy:
Thank-you yet again, Nigel. Steuben's American and well out of my price bracket, so I've tried (unsuccessfully, bits seep in) to ignore it.
But I've learned two very significant bits of info. here - S&W did stuff with "those" bubbles surrounded by deeper solidish enamels, and Steuben did Clutha-style stuff.
Trouble is, it just adds to my knowledge of my lack of knowledge!
But that IS a good thing. :clap:
-
These definitions of cluthra / clutha are all correct. However, the term is also used generically for bubbly glass which has the type of bubbles associated with these makers' products. That is why I used the term in quotes in my original post, and undoubtedly why Carder used the term for his product line as well.
-
Hi,
Just checking in.
I understood your use of the term 'Cluthra' in the original post Paul, but I have never known it used as a generic term for this type of glass in the UK - only as the name of a range designed by Frederick Carder and made by Steuben before the Second World War.
Certainly I don't use it because of it's association with American wares, although I can see that you were probably using it as a sort of shorthand to explain what information you were seeking.
I notice that I have only homed in on Nazeing. Equally well I cannot think of another British firm that might have produced what you describe. Is there any chance of a photo? It could help immensely.
Nigel
-
Hmm,
I've just re-read your first posting Paul and something suddenly occured to me - apart from the fact that you won't be able to post a picture 'cos you say that they are pieces that you've seen, and therefore don't have in you hands - I wonder if your describing some of the work that has been attributed to Nazeing through the Elwell 'find' a couple of years back?
Some of the pieces have the look of having yellowness around the bubbles, but that is achieved through the combination of the casing over the white enamel within. Usually this is most evident with green(s) - see below.
Do the pieces that you have seen have snapped off pontils as well?
Nigel
-
Hi Nigel, thanks again for the info. I'm in the US, and here the word cluthra (and occasionally clutha) gets tossed around pretty liberally as a generic term for any glass that has lots of bubbles in it not in a controlled pattern, especially if its internally decorated through the use of colored powders (frit). As a result, here "cluthra" is used to describe everything from WMF Ikora to Ysart, including Setuben and even obscure Czech and Murano, although most people do understand that the terms (Clutrha and Clutha) do really refer to the British product lines with which they originated. Basically, if you've got an internally decorated, colorful piece with random bubbles, you can call it cluthra and people will get the basic idea of what you're talking about, without being precise. Similarly, the terms Czech, Murano, and Loetz can be manipulated to have wide ranging meanings over here which are highly inaccurate but descriptive.
With your help, I was able to identify the mystery vases I was referring to as Nazeing. Two have no pontil, while one does.
Is the piece you show in your last post (above) a Nazeing piece? If not, who did make it? What is the "Elwell find?"
Thank you again.
-
Hi Paul,
In brief, there was a large haul of glass that was in the ownership of one of Major Elwell's granddaughters. Elwell was the wholesaler, originally based in Bermondsey, London and later in Harlow, Essex who handled much of Nazeing's production. It came to light about 3 years ago. There is information elsewhere on the board about this, but briefly the granddaughter many years ago had inherited the residue of her grandfathers business stock after the company had closed. It had been kept in the original wooden crates that it had been packed in at that time and had not been opened for an estimated 45 to 50 years. There were pieces that evidentally had come from Nazeing, but had no written proof, there were definate Nazeing pieces from pre and post, there was Czech glass, and glass from a number of other sources. We now refer to this as the Elwell haul, or find.
In Geoff Timberlake's book there is a passage that refers to Elwell having designed glass that was made by Nazeing, but there is no evidence of what these pieces look like. It is now believed that the pieces that are not as well made as the documented pre and post war Nazeing production, but which have certain characteristics and references to their work are indeed the Elwell designs.
It is believed that the evidence that we had been seeking for years that would have conclusively tied the probable Elwell designs with Nazeing had been destroyed on a bonfire. Certainly the/a day-book which would have linked Elwell with its suppliers and customers went on the fire (because it was mouldy and in very bad condition), and we were told that a trunk of documents went on the fire. We will never know whether or not these were relevant to Nazeing's history, or whether they were mainly Elwell family history, but prime faci it was the former.
I was invited to go and see the mass of glass which was only partly sorted, but it was fully evident that it was far too large an amount for any glass dealer to manage, particularly because of the quantity of multiple duplicates. Having selected a few pieces that would help with my own research into Nazeing Glass, I and the person who had introduced me to the owner both suggested that she contacted Stephen Pollock-Hill (the owner of the Nazeing Glass Works and member of the GMB amongst a number of interests). He bought the whole collection, so it is largely still all together and as yet, I believe still to be sorted though. It understand that much will eventually end up being added to the Nazeing Museum of British Domestic Glass that Stephen opened a few years ago.
The piece shown is Elwell (in all probability made by Nazeing) rather than what we know as Nazeing, and came from the Elwell find.
Nigel
-
Paul, this is the earlier topic about the Elwell haul:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,19327.0.html - the topic has a link to photos of some of the collection too - well worth a browse through.
-
Nigel and Anne, thank you both very much. This is really cool. I love this site. All of this information is really interesting and exciting.
Thanks again!
PB
-
Hi Everyone, the discussion of the "Scottish, maybe WMF" (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,33152.0/topicseen.html) bowl was really helpful to me with identifying several mystery pieces that I've seen over the years, thanks very much. I have a question: does anyone know if Nazeing, or a similar British manufacturer of "cluthra" type glass, ever used sulphur in their bubbles? I have seen several examples of a type of glass that is very similar to this Nazeing stuff, but with sulphur (yellow) bubbles. Any ideas? All feedback would be appreciated; it's like my own personal "cellophane glass" mystery. Also, where can I learn more about Nazeing and similar glass? I quick browse of the web revealed a few photos, but the results were rather general. Thanks again. :)
I may be able to throw some light on this, as I own one of the largest collections of bubble glass in our Museum, it must be over 100 examples. Bubbles in the glass are the bugbear of all glass manufacturers. These are produced during the melting an fusing conditions in a pot of glass. When the chemicals combine, they emit gasses in the form of bubbles. These float to the top of the melted glass, and hopefully birst and disappear. Sometimes one needs to activate this, and one uses a green piece of fresh wood to stir the bottom up, or even as the kemptons used to do in their recipes, " in three pounds of potatoes"; iron filings were also used. I will try to photograph this in CH Kemptons handwriting, and photograph some examples......
-
Thanks for adding this Stephen, I have three Nazeing pieces all bubbly so it's of personal interest to me. I recall Adam Dodds telling us about using a potato on the end of a rod and dipped into the pot to clear bubbles.
-
(http://)Potatoes were often used to stir up a batch of glass, and allow the gases to break the surface and disappear. Antimony & arsenic are used today.
We have used the green bark of a small tree trunk.
It is the solanine a chemical that the potato produces to scare off the slugs and snails to whom it is poisonous in shoots, green potato skin, and is also in deadly nightshade! It produces, if eaten in quantity, gastrointestinal and neurological disorders. Symptoms include nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, stomach cramps, burning of the throat, cardiac dysrhythmia, nightmares, headache, dizziness, itching, eczema, thyroid problems, and inflammation and pain in the joints. In more severe cases, hallucinations, loss of sensation, paralysis, fever, jaundice, dilated pupils, hypothermia, and death have been reported.
So a pwerful gas. I have an 1880 recipe in front of me from Charles Henry Kempton advising the use of potatoes to make ruby glass!
-
Given all those side effects it's a wonder we ever decided to eat potatoes, Stephen. :)
Out of interest, have you tried using that 1880 recipe for glassmaking at Nazeing?