Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Anik R on May 19, 2010, 08:46:11 AM
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Hi,
While doing some cleaning and re-arranging, I found this long-forgotten vase under the sink. I bought it a few years ago from an on-line auction, though why, I've got no idea.
I think it's a darn ugly piece, but my 9-year-old son says it's wonderful. So I took a closer look at it and it does have some interesting bits.
It is mottled with orange, and upon closer inspection, with some yellow and red. The color is strongest at the top, and then goes lighter towards the bottom (the bottom is more transluscent than the top). There are random air bubble here and there, but they are much smaller at the top.
The base has a polished pontil. In the middle of the pontil is an engraved 'V' that was made with two strokes.
Aha, the vase is about 20cm high.
Can anyone tell me more about it? My first thought was Polish, but then I changed my mind when I saw the 'V' -- I've never seen any Polish glass with such a mark at the bottom.
Thank you,
Anik
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It is definitely interesting and I would say old rather than new, perhaps Bohemian. The V is almost certainly all that remains of the pontil scar. Sometimes removing the scar completely would leave a hole right through! It was certainly considered OK to sell an item finished as yours is: no one sees the base and it is no longer sharp.
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The V is almost certainly all that remains of the pontil scar. Sometimes removing the scar completely would leave a hole right through!
Aha... and silly me thought it vase the maker's mark :24: :pb:
You learn something new every day! Thank you ;D
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... and silly me thought it vase the maker's mark :24: :pb:
...and silly me thought it WAS the maker's mark... not 'vase' -- I think I've got a few brain-issues :pb:
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It'll be the damp :kissy:
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>:D
and the mould..... :-*
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Very funny, ladies ::) :kissy:
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Regarding the base of the vase: is it ground flat and polished smooth, or is it concaved inwards a little bit? Can't tell from the photo. Also, are you sure the V is deliberate, and not either from wear or accidental from the manufacturing process?
If the base is flat and smoothly polished, and not concave, I would say this is WMF Ikora, but an atypical piece.
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Hello Paul,
The base of the vase is flat, not concave, but it is a little wobbly. The 'V' mark looks absolutely deliberate... it is deep, but smooth and not rough to the touch. I can also see polishing marks inside the 'V'.
To be honest, I don't think it's WMF Ikora. The top rim is slightly uneven, and as I said, the vase is a tad wobbly. Although, wouldn't it be great if it were? ;D
Thank you for the response! It's really appreciated.
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Are you positive they're polishing marks in the v-bit - and not just concentric rings from when the pontil rod was broken off?
It does seem to have a polished round bit surrounding it, so I'm firmly in the camp of thinking it's simply the remainder of the pontil mark.
I thought the glass itself remeinded me a bit of some French stuff, but the strappy bits don't, so I'm in the Bohemian camp.
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The base of the vase has got circular marks going around the polished pontil to the edge of the vase. The pontil itself has got horizontal lines going though it. The 'V' also has lines, but going in a slightly different direction than the ones in the pontil. That's why I thought the 'V' mark was also polished.
Then again, I've got no idea what I'm talking about :pb:
;D
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Would you be able to provide clear, detailed close-ups of the base of the vase, straight-on, and the top of the vase as well, looking straight-on down from above?
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OK... I'm ready to make a bigger fool of myself than I already have ;D
Here are more pictures:
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Super job on the photos, really excellent. The V you're referring to is, in my opinion, not a deliberate mark but cold-work cleaning up of the pontil scar. As for the Ikora attribution, I'm not certain, and would have to handle it to be sure. But, the handles are definitely similar to those used by them occasionally, albeit usually on Myra pieces. Without handling the piece, I personally can't be sure, but my instincts tell me uncommon Ikora at this point. FYI: the only pieces of Ikora I've seen which have been uneven or leaning are experimental pieces, or those made by apprentices, which could explain the handles too. However, one must be extremely careful in such circumstances - remember the handled "Monart" piece in the Ysart Glass book.
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Oooooo... no man has ever offered to handle my glass before... :24: :24: :24:
(Mod, please don't throw me off the board... it's the humidity... and the mould... really... brain-issues :spls:)
Thank you, Paul, for taking the time to look and giving your opinion. It would be really lovely if it was an Ikora experimental piece... not that I think it's a nice vase... I still think it's as ugly as h*ll ;D
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definitely NOT Ikora..the base would be polished with no pontil....the handles look "Italian" to me...this is a "cluthra" vase....I say it's contemporary.... ;D
/Blair
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Blair, thank you for the input :)
So it's most probably not Ikora... there go all my romantic visions of a young glassmaker learning the trade and turning out this monstrousity before deciding he should become a shoe-shine boy or something that doesn't require artistic talent. ;D
But seriously, I really don't think this vase is 'contemporary' -- maybe it depends what you mean by the word.
I have my doubts that this vase was made within the last 20 years... it doesn't seem to be the right style for a 'contemporary' piece. :-\
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the base would be polished with no pontil
Not necessarily; this piece has a ground base and a pontil mark
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,32663.0.html
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the base would be polished with no pontil
Not necessarily; this piece has a ground base and a pontil mark
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,32663.0.html
I guess I should of said "a polished base or a polished pontil"...I've never seen an Ikora vase with a pontil scar...as far as "contemporary" goes...i think it was made in the past 25 years....the base seems to have little or no wear....
/Blair
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Hi,
I just thought I'd add that the base has got alot of wear in one 3cm x 1cm spot... the vase really doesn't sit flush, so only that point rubs against the surface.
Aha, also, the outside of the vase is smooth, but the inside is lumpy-bumpy. I can feel the air bubbles.
Again, I appreciate the input!
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But it has got a polished pontil, its just that the scar was too deep to remove completely. I wouldn't like to say whether it was WMF or not but my instinct is not contemporary. Where in the world did you buy it from?
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;D
I bought the vase about 6 years ago on 'Allegro' (something like ebay)... I had to pay only a few zloty for it as I was much cheaper then than I am now. But honestly, for the life of me, I have no idea why I bought it. :pb: I also don't remember how it was described.
Thankfully, my son likes it (because of the color) and asked if he could keep it in his room... At least it will have a better home than stashed under the sink...
But it still would be nice to find out about the maker. :)
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I would think the body of the jug has been mould blown, then a blob of hot glass put on the base (after removal from the mould) so the pontil iron can be attached, so the body can be heated at the Glory hole and it can have the handles and frilly bits of hot glass added.
The scar has come from breaking this off at the blob of glass - hence the moulded bottom, with a pontil scar finished off as best it could be.
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NOT Ikora >:D
It's not a WMF shape, the color is all wrong for Ikora, WMF didn't apply handles to their pieces, etc, etc, etc...
/Blair
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Oh Blair... Couldn't you let me entertain the idea of this being a very strange (i.e. remarkably ugly) WMF vase just a little while longer? I mean, it would be highly romantic to think a young, well-meaning but cross-eyed, apprentice made this before he was rudely asked to leave WMF and never show his face again in the glass-making world. :'(
You never really know... It might have happened... Really.
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Oh Blair... Couldn't you let me entertain the idea of this being a very strange (i.e. remarkably ugly) WMF vase just a little while longer? I mean, it would be highly romantic to think a young, well-meaning but cross-eyed, apprentice made this before he was rudely asked to leave WMF and never show his face again in the glass-making world. :'(
You never really know... It might have happened... Really.
Now that I come to think of it, I do recall such an apprentice at WMF! I think his name was Wolfgang and he only lasted 2 weeks there because he was making his own "custom" pieces instead of following the WMF design standards..I think this is one of his rare "one of a kind" pieces! ;D
take good care if it!
/Blair
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Now that's better! ;D
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Would Ikora have that pincer work on the handles?
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Blair said WMF wouldn't have handles to be pinced in the first place, Cathy! :-*
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Ooops, so he has. I didn't even notice the second page. :spls: 2.12 am here, trying to catch up...
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It's easily done - don't go frying your brains! :-*
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Although not the norm, ikora pieces are occasionally seen with pontil marks just like the one on this piece. Additionally, although not the norm, handled pieces were made and do exist. As I mentioned before, they are more commonly seen on Myra pieces, but handled ikora pieces were made and do exist. Anik, I would not rule out the possibility of an unusual piece of Ikora here, keep your dream alive.
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Although not the norm, ikora pieces are occasionally seen with pontil marks just like the one on this piece. Additionally, although not the norm, handled pieces were made and do exist. As I mentioned before, they are more commonly seen on Myra pieces, but handled ikora pieces were made and do exist. Anik, I would not rule out the possibility of an unusual piece of Ikora here, keep your dream alive.
I'd be interested in seeing pictures of Ikora vases with handles and/or items with unfinished pontils....anybody have any?? ;D
/Blair
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Paul, it would be fantastic if you could show us evidence of one-off and handled pieces. It's actually quite exciting to learn new information, especially when it disproves assumptions we've all made.
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I'll see what I can do. The pieces I'm thinking of belong to a friend of mine, so I'll have to clear photographing them with him first. If that works out, it wouldn't be before mid-June at the earliest, due to my work schedule. So stay tuned, I'll keep you posted. In the meantime, you'll just have to take my word for it, but it is true - although not common, pontil marks and handles are occasionally (very occasionally) found on WMF glass.
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On Thursday, I bought "Współczesne polskie szkło i ceramika" by Paweł Banaś from a secondhand bookshop. Plate 48 shows a jug (by Jerzy Słuczan-Orkusz) with a handle which is similar to the ones on my ugly vase, just placed the other way around... Perhaps it's Polish, 1960s-70s?
Thank you for still looking :).