Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: astrid on June 03, 2010, 07:24:25 AM
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It was sold to me as possibly czech. Seller thought it might be an '80s piece - I have nothing to reference it with so far. I love it! Didn't pay much because a few condition problems at the base and the rim. The blue (very thin layer, as you can see at the rim where the layer is chipped a bit) is encased in clear glass, the round bits are actually polished inwards for optical effect, and the opaque bits are created by a thin layer of something semi transparant that doesn't look like the other satinated glass pieces I have.
Measurements: 25.7 cm high, rim and base 6 cm at the widest and 5.2 at the smallest.
Any help appreciated, as usual,
Astrid
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I'm bumping this one, maybe it's not Czech, any other speculation as to origin? German wouldn't surprise me...
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Try Beranek http://www.beranekglass.com/default.aspx?lang=EN&btnNum=5 (http://www.beranekglass.com/default.aspx?lang=EN&btnNum=5)
Nice piece shame about the damage.
I have quite a few of these as I used to retail them Sadly they are not around anymore but the websites are still up and well worth having a trawl through.
Regards Mike
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Thanks Mike. Do you mean you used to have Beranek glasswork pieces around and this reminds you of them, or that you specifically had this type of vase around, acquired from that particular source?
Astrid
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Hi Astrid.
Yes is the answer to both your questions.
I still have around 40 pieces. I will get round to selling them one day but until then its nice to look at them.
I visited the factory in the Czech Republic on several occasions. It was amazing how they used to work. Once the government took away all the subsides they used to give all the Glass factories they just couldn't survive.
I now and have for a long time dealt purely with Richard Golding art glass see www.abfabglass.co.uk (http://www.abfabglass.co.uk)
Regards Mike
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Astrid, it might be worth a trawl through the Glass Forest website - they had a lot of Beranek when I was over there last: http://www.glassforest.co.uk/
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Thank you Mike! There certainly are some recent Beranek pieces that resemble this type of vase a lot (though this exact one isn't listed). I'll comfortably attribute it to Beranek glassworks, with some uncertainty about date (80s to comtemporary). I know I'm pushing my luck, but you wouldn't happen to know any designer that did this type of vase?
And thanks for the link, Anne. Good to see a source for contemporary Czech glass.
Astrid
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This is not Beranek
nor Beranek Glassworks from Skrdlovice -
http://picasaweb.google.cz/Jindra8526/BeranekGlassworks?authkey=Gv1sRgCOvIkvmg7-zidA# either
Glass Studio Beranek from Zdar
http://picasaweb.google.cz/Jindra8526/JiriBeranekZdarNadSazavou?authkey=Gv1sRgCN_c6sfo24WqmQE#).
Both glassworks are closed now.
This piece is not produced by Princ from Zdar -
http://www.princglass.com/index_en.aspx and not
by Svoboda from Karlov
http://www.ags-svoboda.cz/art_cut.html.
I would say, that this piece is not Czech.
Mike's comment to Czech glass production is very simplifying and not exact and definitely not valid for all glassworks in country.
Jindrich
www.webareal.cz/ceskoslovenskesklo
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It appears I could be wrong but I dont mind being educated.
Regards Mike
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Jindrich, I respect your expertise as always - but I'm still trying to get a better feel for where this vase belongs...
I do observe that some of the design elements that are used in this vase seem to be present in the links you've provided. The Beranek and the Princ catalogues for instance have semi-cylindrical style vases that are round on opposite sides, and cut flat on the other opposite sides like this one. Some of these have small round lenses cut out. And the colours blank and blue are commonly used in these type of vases. Other elements, like the semi transparant layer, seems to be missing.
It may not be Czech, as you say, but other than perhaps German the Czech style elements fit more closely than any other region I could think of - unless it's an attempt by a modern factory (China perhaps?) to produce something Czech-like in this style. My questions: has anyone seen non-Czech factories anywhere anytime use these kind of style elements? I know the Chinese copy a lot of Murano elements, and Ikea likes to borrow Scandinavian design elements - but have they tried Czech elements as well?
Astrid
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Ikea likes to borrow Scandinavian design elements
IKEA is a Scandinavian company that employs mainly Scandinavian designers, so they're not strictly 'borrowing' ;)
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IKEA is a Scandinavian company that employs mainly Scandinavian designers, so they're not strictly 'borrowing' ;)
Ah, OK. What I mean is that Ikea glass design frequently falls back on designs that have been put on the market decades earlier by Scandinavian glass companies. And if the original designer or his heirs are compensated for that in any way, I haven't read about it...
Astrid
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Well Mike,
We are trying to discover what has happened with Czech glass industry in 90ties and the explanation or solution of this issue is not unambiguous and easy.
In 1990/91 all Czechoslovakian industry previously fully owned by state was subject of restitution and privatization. Huge concern of Crystalex was divided into several corporations, same has happened with Sklo Union and other factories. Restituted it means given back to former owners was only glasswork in Skrdlovice - Beranek glassworks you have remembered. Privatized was also trade organization Glassexport.
The privatization was made by so called "coupon method", each adult Czechoslovakian citizen had got exact amount of coupons that he could exchange for shares in any corporation just according his wish. This environment was exploited by several groups of financiers who founded many investment funds, bought shares from individuals and got corporations under their control.
It has to be remembered that these people were financiers (mostly with communistic or secret police past) not managers or experts for glass industry.
Their aim was not to produce glass but money and as soon as possible. With many legal or not legal tricks that management led out the money from corporations to their private companies or accounts. It has happened to Glassexport, so very fast glass producers had lost their markets abroad, the trade contacts and links were broken. Because of collapse of Soviet Union also our glass producers simultaneously lost their big customer who had bought almost all production in past.
Former state organizations like Crystalex owned not only the glass factories but also many other properties like recreational centers in mountains or hotels in attractive locations, plots and land. The value of such properties was sometimes bigger than value of glass-shop; we must not forget that aim was to get money asap, not to establish long term profitable glass production.
Because glass producing was very traditional and profitable in past, it was not difficult to get bank credits. Borrowed money was not invested to glass production but again, tricky led out from privatized corporations to private accounts of management.
Later, when nothing to steal more persists, the insolvency and bankruptcy was was declared.
So it was not incompetence of management but they had rather another business plan how to get money for themselves. This plan did not consider to produce good glass.
Jindrich
www.webareal.cz/ceskoslovenskesklo
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All the more reason for proper regulation and the rule of law, providing an environment that suits only the sharks leads to destruction.
And if the original designer or his heirs are compensated for that in any way, I haven't read about it...
Those designers probably 'borrowed' from (inspired by) the designers and their work that came before. They had built their work on the ideas of their predecessors and so it continues..... The vast majority of design is a chain, a process of refinement, a truly original idea is rare.
John
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Hi Jindrich
My original statement still stands (Once the government took away all the subsides they used to give all the Glass factories they just couldn't survive)
that as a State owned business it was well subsidised by the State but once all State subsidies were taken away in this case by privatisation they like business all over the world just could not survive in the privates sector.
I just didn't put the detail in.
I am still of the opinion that this is Berenek.
Regards Mike
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Hi Astrid. Here is a link to the designers that worked at Beranek.
http://www.beranekglass.com/default.aspx?menu_level=3&subMenu_level=8&lang=EN&maxpage_=0 (http://www.beranekglass.com/default.aspx?menu_level=3&subMenu_level=8&lang=EN&maxpage_=0)
I would love to spend time going through as I love to see what those wonderful Master Glass Blowers came up with. My son is getting married this weekend and as you can imagine that despite having everting planned down to the last detail there are still a million and one things to do most of which I pointed out months ago.
Regards Mike
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I have now seen a few of these type of Beranek pieces 'live' at the Leerdam Glasbeurs, but while the designs indeed look similar, I have to conclude that the Beranek pieces are of a far better quality than my piece.
Having talked to a stand holder that sold Czech glass, and had pieces with cut out little lenses that he said were of small glass companies who sort of followed earlier designs by other companies, I think this vase may be something similar: a cheaper produced item by a smaller glassworks, following the style set by Beranek.
Astrid
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Mike, expecially in case of Beranek the state role was minimal.
Vlastimil Beranek - grandson of founder of Skrdlovice glasswork Emanuel Beranek has got the fully equiped and modern factory with production program with pieces of the best Czech designers in restitution. The "privatisation" issues that I mentioned above, could not be applied there.
The collaps of Beranek's factory I see in mistakes in managing of factory and investing the profit from good years to private benefits rather to saves for bad years. Note please, that former director of Skrdlovice - Jaroslav Svoboda - did build hsi glasshop few miles from Skrdlovice in same year when Beranek has got his heritage back, and Svoboda is still running his factory. The fabrication program is almost same.
I have spent many hours with speaking with former workers and designers of Skrdlovice glasswork and their opinion about the reason of Beranek colapse is unique.
Well, this piece could be made in Beranek glassworks, but I have no evidence that it was made there. It is not in pattern books nor in catalogues, I have not seen this model here. Single colour of piece would lead me to suspiction that if Czech, than manufacture in some small, as we say "garage" glassworks with single pan furnace.
Jindrich
www.webareal.cz/ceskloslovenskesklo
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Jindrich
The very fact that Beranek was state run would mean that it wasted money hand over fist and was run poorly.
Every state run business I have ever heard of is always top heavy with pen pushers and is constantly in need of funds.
You can always pick the bones over and say well this one was different because of this or that but the main underlying problem with any state run business is that it will hemorrhage money and once the state stops giving then the whole thing collapses like a pack of cards.
So I go back to my original statement being correct.
I went to the Beranek factory on many occasions and saw what went on, there was absolutely no way it could have survived by standing on its own two feet.
Great shame because the glass that came out was of the highest quality and I loved it.
Mike
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Again, it has nothing to do with state, Mike.
The example of AGS Svoboda is clear proof that the colapse of Beranek was not caused by lack of state funds but poor management of factory.
My oppinion is that generaly state owned factories work worse and not economicaly. Czechoslovak and later Czech republic situation was specific becouse we had to transfer from state owned form of busines to private busines. Some companies like Beranek failed, another had been created.
The crisis of glass industry that has appeared two years ago did shake with many glass factories in whole Europe.
I hope that we will recover it back and to again better quility as in many times in past.
Jindrich
www.webareal.cz/ceskoslovenskesklo
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Jindrich
We will have to differ on this one.
Your argument is saying what I am arguing but in a different way.
Mike
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Sorry Mike, all is possibly caused by my poor English :-)
Let we hope that our glass will grow again
Jindrich
www.webareal.cz/ceskoslovenskesklo
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Hi Jindrich
No need to appologise because your english is far better than my Czech
I have many pieces that I originally brought to sell, but have fallen in love with the pieces I have left over and they will now stay with me.
Mind regards Mike