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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Paul S. on June 06, 2010, 10:59:39 AM
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trying a little deductive reasoning here........first picture shows detail of a known Vasart/Strathearn bowl/vase with copper aventurine inclusions around the neck area plus the 'S' pattern swirling (all over flat base without a leaping fish/label/or any other marks) - 8 inches tall. Acquired from a professional source. Second picture of bluish lamp base - again shows aventurine inclusions - more or less 'S' pattern swirling - has extremely thick clear casing, with lamp type neck opening plus hole drilled as shown - mould blown, and with top ground/polished flat. Base wear indicates possibility of age might be something like 35 - 60 years with, as to be expected, other wear evident around waist consistent with contact from other items over period of time - height 7.25 inches - source.....charity shop for a fiver. I can only say that having looked in Jackson's Factory glass, it is a fact that the Perth factory produced lamps and lamp bases, which may well have included items with aventurine and 'S' type swirls. Of course, it may well just be something from China recently - but as a bit of a novice I just thought that the similarity with aventurine and 'S' swirling looked really quite similar..............So, I'm looking please for an expert on Sottish please. :)
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I had meant to give the reference, should anyone want to look it up............
"20th Century Factory Glass" - Lesley Jackson - 2000......pp. 135/136
apolgies for omission.
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The first piece looks more Monarty to me - colours too vibrant for Vasart. I'm not sure it looks very Strathearn either........
To my (limited) knowledge, only Stuart Strathearn polished rims. It would help no end to actually see the whole thing of your second bit - shape can be important.
I don't know if Stuart Strathearn did lamps, but Strathearn did.
Also, in some recent years, Franco Toffolo has been spending some time with John Deacons and Willie Manson, playing with takes on the Tulip lamps in the "Scottish style" (as well as a load of other stuff). They are rather exuberant.
However, he has now retired from glass completely and is living in England somewhere.
(I just found that out yesterday, from the Strathearn Gallery in Crieff, where he was selling his work)
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thanks Sue - and you may well be correct with Monart - what I know about Scottish glass you could write on the back of a Scottish postage stamp. My reason for saying Vasart/Strathearn was after having looked in Judith Miller's 20th Century Glass, where 'S' scrolls are attributed to Vasart - however, I see also that some Monart pieces appear to also have something similar. I understand that Strathearn pieces sometimes have the leaping fish mark, so I thought maybe it wasn't that. I seems to be a very difficult area for provenance/attribution, and I certainly wouldn't pretend to know anything about this material (other than the fact that much of it is very beautiful) :)
I have now attached more pictures of the blueish lamp base - and very much look forward to more contributions from you - as again, I know 'nuuuuthing' about this item other than there are some noticeable similarities with the first picture. thanks for your help. Paul S.
Reference: 20th Century Glass - Judith Miller/Frankie Leibe/Mark Hill - 2004 ...p. 56
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:huh:
The bottom bit looks Scottish-ish, the top part does not. The polished rim really bothers me. And the shape is decidedly wrong. And it's far too thick.
I'd say not any of Monart, Vasart, Strathearn or Stuart Strathearn. It also doesn't look remotely right for Perthshire (which came out of Strathearn)
Peter Holmes who used to work at Strathearn now runs Border Art Glass, also continuing in this tradition, that may be a direction to look?
Have you trawled Frank's catalogues yet?
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I'd agree Peter Holmes is most likely
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Peter Holmes who used to work at Strathearn ...
Are you sure about that, Sue?
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my thanks to all of you - and I did spend some time last evening looking at images on Frank's catalogues - and although I found the colour combination for the known piece i.e. "turquoise/green with the black/aventurine around the rim" - allocated to Monart (you were quite correct Sue), I must have somehow missed seeing the actual shape. Will have to look again this evening.
Re the Blue lamp base, I have not yet had the time to investigate the Peter Holmes direction - but will do so, unless you guys advise otherwise. Again, my sincere thanks for the help. Paul S.
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:-[
Did a bit of searching and found somebody saying Peter Holmes left SELKIRK Glass to form BAG, Kev. Anybody know of any connection between Selkirk and the Monart/Vasart/Strathearn/Stuart Strathearn and Perthshire stream?
Sorry, I'm not quite "up" on the full details of Scottish stuff, my knowledge is sort of incidental.
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I may still be trying to miaow up a tree, (earlier on today, I bit the bull by the horns) but could the reason you didn't find the shape of the first thing in the catalogues be because it's a ginger jar without a lid?
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Paul,
Could you show us pics of the bases please? Oh, and what are you going to do with the amber vase???? ;) ;)
Cheers, Nigel
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this shows the mistake of putting two items on the same post - very reprehensible - don't want this to now get out of hand, so must be careful we don't get confused.
Sue.......Been a bit busy elsewhere this evening, so only just seen your comments re ginger jar (the Monart piece), and you may well be correct, in which case I only have two thirds of what I thought I was getting. ;D Another reason to know your subject before launching out on a purchase.
Tomorrow I will go back over Frank's catalogue pictures.
Nigel - my secret is out - were you bidding as well? - and did you know there may well have been a lid missing? You should have told me ;D When you say pics. of the bases, I have of course already shown a picture of the Monart base, (were you just viewing on line?) - In view of the time now - I will post a picture of the lamp base tomorrow, but can tell you however, that it is a mould blown base. Whatever attribution the lamp base gets, I was so struck by the similarity of the 'S' scrolls on both pieces that I really though there was some sort of connection. Having walked out of the auction and straight into the charity shop, I couldn't but be struck by the similarity. But being a pessimist, by the time I got home I had almost convinced myself it was Chinese. Ordinarily, something like this, in a charity shop, I would avoid - looks too clean and modern - but what convinced me to take a chance was the amount of base wear. I have tried looking briefly re Peter Holmes, but nothing to report just yet.
Re the brown Wrythen - controlled bubble vase - hadn't given it too much thought yet, and haven't yet posted, so no one will know what we are talking about. No marks that I can see - possibly too dark for Webb, perhaps Stuart - would you like to confide your thoughts, or is the jury still out. Thanks for looking, of course. Paul S.
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Hi Paul,
No, I didn't bid on that lot, I meant to check it out, but had a quick dash down to see my Mum down in Devon over the weekend ....and forgot about popping in there :-[ Doh!!
For anyone else who hasn't already gathered, there was another vase, in amber, with the Monart green vase at the auction, so I thought I'd check we were talking about the same "professional source" by mentioning it.
'night all, Nigel
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In fact, I hadn't shown the base of either :-[ - so to put matters right, here they are, although being completely smooth and shiny the Monart base is difficult to photograph (apart from a feint crescent remnant of the pontil mark, which you might just be able to make out).
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Hi,
For what it's worth I would say Monart vase - and a Strathearn lamp base. Certainly there is a colour way by Strathearn like that.
Nigel
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thanks Nigel - appreciate your thoughts. I am still investigating myself as well, and should I have some thoughts to share, will come back again.
Am hoping to post some pictures of the brown vase that you mentioned, hopefully tomorrow, and look forward to anyone's opinion. thanks Paul S.
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as a bit of a postscript - I telephoned Peter Holmes on Wednesday - explained the situation re the blue lamp base, and he very kindly offered to look at my pictures should I care to send them to him via email. This I did - using JPG - although I understand from Peter that he was unable to download/view the images, and so progress was halted at that point. He is obviously a busy professional worker and although I suggested he might view the same images on the GMB, this is presumably something he is unable to do. However, I would like to record my thanks to him for offering to help, even though this did not reach a conclusion. Paul S.
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Try shoving them on photobucket and emailing him the links?
- he'd just need to click on them to see it. 8)
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He only needs the thread link for here too. It's only the cafe that non-members can't nosy in.
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My brother is sure this lampbase is Strathearn - but a rather unusual beastie. He does rather know what he's talking about with these - and has at least one red one, if not a blue like this.
The reason for the lack of leaping salmon on the base could be the complications of adding it along with the business of drilling the hole for the flex - just making the whole process too prone to damage while finishing it.
I trust his identification and his opinion.
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Sorry to do this again Sue :huh:
The reason that there is no leaping salmon is because the piece was blown into a mould for forming. Therefore there is no pontil mark, and no need to cover it with the leaping salmon impressed mark. The rim is the pontil as it were - and that is cut and finished, albeit unpolished.
The good news is that would happily concur with your brother's attribution :) :)
Nigel
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I just got a hurried, mid-sandwich email from him about the base, and only repeated what he said - he's hassled and horribly busy right now, his brain may have been awol, Nigel!
But we do remember answering a query a while ago about one of these in red. (well, I do, now I've been prompted ::) )
but it was the same shape and "finish" and it is definitely STRATHEARN.
(no matter about wonky wibble and base finishes and lack of any fish!)
whew!
And thanks, Nigel :kissy: for correcting wonky wibble.
just located the link to the discussion on the red one.
(my brother is the Dr. Marshall)
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,27149.0.html
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It was Anne's http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,27149.0.html
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My sincere thanks to everyone who has helped me with information for this lamp base :) , and very reassuring to have multiple confirmations for Strathearn ID. These pieces are more attractive in the flesh than the pics. reveal - especially with the copper aventurine inclusions, and I guess if used as a lamp would look quite striking with the light catching the colours. Quite a coincidence that I should acquire a piece of Monart and Strathearn on the same day - all I now need is a piece marked Vasart ;). Just as a final question, what sort of date range might this be please.?
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1964 - 1971
EDIT: PS. Cor, I nearly missed an opportunity!! I've got a number of marked pieces of Vasart that you could cross my hand with siver for ;D ;D
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having just bought threequarters of a green Monart ginger jar at auction, the only silver I have left is in my teeth ;D but appreciate the offer Nigel, and thanks for the date line for the Strathearn.
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:-[ :-[ :-[ I need to exonorate my brother - he did not say anything about the lack of fish.
I got myself in a total tangle trying to track down links after I got his cryptic mid-sandwich email (with a link that didn't work in it) and I must have attributed a remark I read by somebody else, somewhere else, to him. Sorry. :pb:
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...Anybody know of any connection between Selkirk and the Monart/Vasart/Strathearn/Stuart Strathearn and Perthshire stream?
Peter Holmes trained with and assisted Paul Ysart at Caithness 1963-70
http://www.ysartglass.com/Ysart/YGpeople.htm
He is probably one of the most prolific Ysart style makers and his glass tends to be very thick.
Green - could be a Ginger Jar but rim seems a little short. I'd say a shape A and it might have been originally sold as a lamp base with non-glass shade. There are some shape variations showing HERE (http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=2672&category_id=260&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=6)
For confusion see http://www.ysartglass.com/Moncat/Page01_N.htm
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thanks Frank - interesting reading the Peter Holmes and Paul Ysart link. I have now measured the thickness of my lamp base - measured at the area of the drilled hole -and have a reading of 11/12mm - which is quite substantial. Regarding your thoughts on my green piece being a possible shape 'A' - would be good to think I wasn't in fact missing a lid :) - however, this 'should it have a lid or not' question looks very difficult to assess, so I won't even try to go there. Would however, just comment that looking at shapes 'Z' and 'JE' - with lids for example - it is noticeable that the 'shoulders' of these pieces are more flared out, so that when a lid sits in place the 'look' is more balanced.