Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: chriscooper on July 27, 2010, 05:41:26 PM
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Colour is more like Whitefriars sea green than the darker bottle green normally seen them in? Is it Victorian? Is it a doorstop or paperweight?
It is huge (5 x 5") nearly 3kg.
cheers
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Most likely a doorstop. Probably Victorian, but base finish is not like others of that styke I have seen. On the other hand, I might be remembering bases incorrectly.
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Hi There,
I am not convinced that these lighter colour paperweights are all Victorian... Considering their condition and their large numbers, I suspect that many were made very recently and overseas :or:.
Of course, there are some genuine Victorian dumps around, too... But I am not sure this one is....
SophieB
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The couple I have are very rough on the base and neither stand up straight and the pontil scars are broken,
Keith.
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I believe the origin of the term 'dump' for a type of weight is that these weights were made from the poorer quality glass remaining at the end of the batch, which was to be 'dumped' - ie disposed of as unusable. The great majority of green glass 'dumps' were not made in this way, of course, as they were made for sale (eg Kilner and Redfearn sometimes imprinted their names on the base). But the Victorian pieces are generally a dark green, being made from bottle glass.
The problem with attributing these paler pieces to a particular date, manufacturer - or even country - is that almost any glass factory was capable of producing them, whether as products for sale, or as 'friggers' by the workers, until they went over to automated systems. I have seen roughly spherical blobs with bubbles in for sale at various small glass studios I have visited. Most of them make good doorstops if heavy enough - otherwise - IMHO - they would be better thrown in the cullet skip, having no redeeming features (but I feel that way about the many Caithness 'bubbles and swirls' too, which many people collect...!)
Hartley Wood Glass in North East England made and sold typical Victorian style dumps with internal bubble flowers in the 1960s - these were a somewhat paler green than Victorian ones; and a few years ago a flood of very pale blue-green Victorian style tiered flower dumps appeared at glass and antique fairs and on eBay (all being sold as 'Victorian', but still warm from the Chinese kiln, I suspect). These were rather slim, and had flat polished bases as I recall.
Anyway, I very much doubt that this piece is Victorian, despite the rough pontil mark.
Alan
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Thanks for all comments so far, think maybe I should take some better photos, loads of base wear the odd bullseye ding and lot's of age related scratches, pretty sure there is some age to it and not made yesterday and with all due respect, holding it in front of me, I know it's sometimes hard from a photo but pretty sure it's not modern Chinese.
Chris
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Hi Chris
I wasn't trying to suggest it was Chinese - the colour does not look correct. If it were Whitefriars, I imagine it would be lead crystal.
I own have a similar item - I have no idea who made it. But it makes a good doorstop!
Alan
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Modern Chinese huge bubbly things are either nice and clear or slightly yellowish (unless of course they are coloured :24: ) and with a ground base.
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Hi Alan, your knowledge is greatly appreciated, trying to answer Sophie B in my usual 'tactless' way that I am pretty sure it has some age to it and pretty sure it's not 'modern :or:
Thanks Chris
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This weight could have been made at any time with bottle glass. Basal wear is not really a good indicator of age with soft glass. It took only a year or so to put a wear ring on a Coke bottle back in the day when they were more common.
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Hi Chris,
Don't worry, I am happy to be wrong.
I am just weary because of the large number of these seen in antique shops and available at auctions.
SophieB
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Thanks Sophie :sun:
Rocksmom. sorry to appear dim but don't quite understand what you mean by 'It takes only a year or so to put a wear ring on a coke bottle'? Thought you just opened them drank them and threw them away, pleease explain
also 'base wear is not really a good indicator of age'? I always presumed genuine base/shelf was an indication of age, pretty sure a lot on here do too, as many a post contains the phrase 'base wear' as an indication to age? I appreciate it's difficult looking at photos but trust me I have it in front of me, the base wear looks genuine, the bullseye dings the scratches all tell me it has some age to it.
Again apologies if the reply is obvious and it's just got lost on me :-[
cheers Chris
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The old coke bottles were returned and actually refilled by the bottlers. (This was before recycling as we know it today). My point being that the glass used for making bottles is different and softer than glass used by "quality" paperweight makers. When bottle glass is used to make paperweights (and many beautiful weights have been made with bottle glass) you can expect basal wear, as well as surface scratches to occur MUCH easier than it would be expected with a harder glass.
As a longtime collector, the reason I personally want to see the base of a weight is not to see if there's a wear ring, but to see how the base is finished. Is it flat or concave? Is it polished, ground or rough? Is it symetrical? Is there a pontil scar? Are there any other identifying marks or characteristics? You can have a Clichy with no wear to the base, just as you can have a Perthshire that does. It depends on how often the weight was dragged across another (harder) surface, or possibly repolished.
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Oh, and as far as "bulls eyes", they can happen any time the weight is knocked against another piece of glass. Last year I purchased a lovely NEGC weight in almost pristine condition. I had it on the table and my mother accidently knocked a glass over, which unfortunately hit my "new" weight and gave it it's first spall. :cry: So you see, the spall can be new, no matter the age of the weight.
I hope I've made some sense here.... :or:
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Obviously I did know that that a ding doesn't mean it's old, but surely taking in to account all the factors together probably mean it's not modern Chinese made yesterday. Not trying to say it's Victorian(that was the seller not me) I am not a collector but merely trying establish a little information so I can list it with an honest description.
thanks Chris
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Oh and bought a Whitefriars bubble paperweight today , aqua so around 40 years old, looks more 'worn' than I do, sold an ocean green one the other week (even older) not a mark on it not even shelf wear bright as a button and looking like it was made yesterday?
Chris