Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: johnfandmaryp on August 11, 2010, 02:07:47 PM
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Hi guys,
Just wondered if anyone can confirm for me that this paperweight is by Caithness ~ it's inscribed 10/2000 on the bottom, but there's no maker's mark. About 2.5"/6.5cm in diameter.
Thanks in anticipation, John. 8)
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Yes, it was commissioned by the dealer, Peter Jones China in 1993.
There was also a Cobalt base version, rather than the Ruby of yours, John. There was also a ruby overlay version with facets. The overaly was a 40 piece edition, the Cobalt base version was 250 pieces and the Ruby base one was, indeed, 2000 items.
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Thank you very much Kev.
As it happens, I also have the faceted ruby overlay one with a Millefiori crown and Whitefriars Monk cane ~ they came in a mixed lot which I bought at auction recently. That one was a bit easier to ID, as it was marked as Caithness!!
Many thanks again, John. :)
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There were weights in 1992 (40 years accession) and 1993 (Coronation). The 1993 weights mentioned by KevH can be viewed on Scotlandsglass:
Ruby version (http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=4343&category_id=60&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=6) (this post), Coronation Coach engraved.
Cobalt version (http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=4344&category_id=60&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=6) (which is a pedestal type), Coronation Coach engraved.
Ruby Overlay (http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=4345&category_id=60&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=6) with a Millefiori Crown and the monk cane. Two versions of this weight with different facetting are known - could be prototypes.
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Thank you Wuff ~ very useful! I'll be listing the ruby coach and also the overlay on eBay on Sunday, and will include an acknowledgement and link with the details if you don't mind.
Cheers, John. 8)
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Does anyone else share my misgivings about the way this Board is used on occasion, whereby someone with relatively little knowledge of a particular subject gets other with greater expertise to give free identification advice - not because their main wish is to learn more, but because they hope to make a profit for themselves (usually on eBay)? It is good that they acknowledge the contribution of Board members in their adverts, but how about the idea that they should offer a donation - say 10% of sale price ? - to the GMB? (In this case that might not be very much: I tried to sell one of these weights last year, starting it at £4.99. It got no bids, so I put it into auction in a mixed lot...) ;).
Any thoughts or comments?
Alan
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Coming from someone who links to his paperweights website, which includes a for sale section, in his signature...
Knowledge shared is knowledge gained by everyone. Does it matter what that information is used for (illegal or dubious purposes excepted)? Can you honestly say you have never profited by something you learned here, even if only to nab something for your collection?
How would we police it?
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Hi Christine
I think what I was referring to is very different from saying 'Hey! I have some items for sale. Take a look!'. I have no difficulty with that on the GMB, whether via a website link, an ebay link, or a link in the appropriate sales area. That is not drawing on other people's knowledge to determine the identity or possible value of something. Indeed, if I make a mistake and list a Bacchus on my website as a 'Murano', with a Murano price, I bet someone would snap it up, rather than say 'Do you realise that is a Bacchus?'.
Regarding knowledge - yes, I agree that we should all share knowledge. And I am sure that we all profit by doing so, in one way or another, whether that is obvious in the short term or not. I was not suggesting a rigid scheme that should be policed: I was suggesting something that individuals might feel was appropriate on occasion, in order to help the GMB, given the specific benefits that they have obtained from it.
Alan
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I have no difficulty with that on the GMB, whether via a website link, an ebay link, or a link in the appropriate sales area. That is not drawing on other people's knowledge to determine the identity or possible value of something.
Sellers, whether they are regular business sellers, or just "one off" occasional sellers, have to get their information from somewhere, surely that's the whole point of this and other glass forums! Nobody is born with an inbuilt fountain of knowledge on any particular subject as far as I know! :huh:
Sounds like you are having a "grumpy day", as I can't really see the point you are making. This forum is full of people who buy to sell as well as collector's who occasionally sell.
:huh: :huh: :huh:
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My point was, what's the the difference between free advertising and free information when both are aimed at making a profit. You'd have difficulty proving the GMB helped in either situation, especially in a field like paperweights. Isn't the GMB part of doing the research?
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Hi Alan (and others!),
I’d like to respond to your comments as follows:
1) I had spent some time ‘researching’ the paperweight before asking about it, and had reached the conclusion that it almost certainly was Caithness but just wanted final confirmation ~ I didn’t actually ask for identification. Surely it’s better that I list an item accurately rather than misrepresenting it?
2) I have to say that I’m rather surprised that you feel the way you do about this ~ hope you don’t mind me quoting from your excellent website at the link you include with your postings (http://www.pwts.co.uk/) where you state:
“…we can probably help you with the identification and valuation of your paperweights (whether for sale, insurance or probate)”
What’s the difference between doing so on this board and via your website?
Additionally, you too ask for the help of others when, on your website, you write:
“Please browse the site, and let me know what you think would improve it - and please send me useful links if you have any.”
3) Your assertion that I’m not interested in learning, but only in profit, just isn’t true. The most enjoyment I get out of what I do to earn my living (I’m afraid that I haven’t been able to retire yet!) is from learning something new all the time, not just in the field of glass but about the many varied items I come across. And I like to think that I’m not lazy about this learning ~ I spend many hours each week trying to find out about the items which interest me.
4) As you say, I have relatively little knowledge of this subject (nor of most others!), mainly because I deal in many different areas of interest, and one of the best ways to increase my knowledge is with the help of experts on forums such as this. I certainly don’t have to ask about as many objects as I used to, so it seems to be helping. I haven’t therefore been able to contribute very much to the many topics discussed on the board but I have, on several occasions, made photographs of objects which I’ve asked about on this board available to other members when asked if I would do so for inclusion in their publications and/or websites. I’ve always been very happy to do this, even though it has sometimes involved quite a bit of time and effort on my part to ensure accurate colour representation etc.
5) If it will make you feel any better about things, I’ll include the fact that I’m intending to sell the item in any request I make for information in future. That way, anyone who feels the same way as you obviously do will have the option of not helping.
A big thank you to the rest of you. I hope that, given the way this topic has developed, you’ll understand if I don’t include a link to it with my listing ~ don’t want to put people off using the board!
John. 8)
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Hi John
Thanks for that detailed, considered and helpful reply. I think your suggestion that someone wanting information because they plan to sell the item, should say so up front, is a very good idea.
I could perhaps have phrased my comments more carefully, as I did not mean to imply you were not interested in learning. The request was, as I saw it, primarily in order to help you when selling the item - my apologies if that was not clear, or was incorrect.
I am all in favour of people understanding more about what they are selling, whether it is individuals, dealers, or auction houses! If only all attributions were accurate. But I do feel there is a difference between private individuals - who may well know nothing about some object they have - and professional dealers or auction houses. Or is that naive of me?
Alan
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But I do feel there is a difference between private individuals - who may well know nothing about some object they have - and professional dealers or auction houses. Or is that naive of me?
Well, forgive me if I appear dense, but I just cannot see your point. Many a professional auction house could do with asking for information on the items they are selling, most especially when they are guilty of attributing something incorrectly. Of course it is likely to be in your favour if they are saying a Baccarat weight is Murano, but not so favourable if they are doing it the other way round, and someone (who doesn't know as much as you do) pays dearly for a wrongly attributed piece. Many a professional dealer, including ones who use this forum, also have to ask from time to time about something outside of their usual remit.
Nobody knows everything . How then did you acquire your knowledge ? Did you never ask a question about anything?
I am not "having a go" at you Alan, but it seems strange to me that you are trying to differentiate between dealers and others in the search for knowledge. And it confuses me :huh:
So how do you feel about the Market Place section on this forum? Many people here have had their piece discussed, then it is put on ebay, and then it is "advertised" in the Market Place. Some of those people are professional sellers, some just taking a punt.........even more confused I am :huh: :huh:
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Hi Alan,
I think your suggestion that someone wanting information because they plan to sell the item, should say so up front, is a very good idea.
I'm afraid you've misread what I wrote Alan! I would not presume to suggest that anyone on the board should do anything ~ it's not my place to do so. What I said was that I would do so if it would ease your concerns.
But I do feel there is a difference between private individuals - who may well know nothing about some object they have - and professional dealers or auction houses. Or is that naive of me?
I'm not quite sure what difference you are referring to but, as an 'interested party' to the discussion, I probably shouldn't comment if what you mean is that private individuals should be allowed to ask for information here whereas professional dealers and auction houses should not unless they pay for it. I would just state that in my case (and, I'm sure, that of other dealers who are members here) the fact that I sell items does not mean that I'm not very keen to learn about them before I do. I would love to keep a lot of the items I sell, but am not in a financial position to be able to do so ~ the line is a very fine one indeed.
I would also reiterate the point I made earlier about the inconsistency in your argument when you suggest that I shouldn't ask for information on this board without making a financial contribution but you are happy to ask others on your website, which you use inter alia for selling paperweights, for their help in improving it.
John. 8)
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Hi John / vidrioguapo / other readers
(This thread has drifted off topic to more general philosophy about the use of the boards, so the Moderators may wish to consider moving it or splitting it.)
Let's be clear - I have not said that I believe that anyone ought to pay for information obtained from this board. What I have said is:
how about the idea that they should offer a donation
and also
I was suggesting something that individuals might feel was appropriate on occasion, in order to help the GMB, given the specific benefits that they have obtained from it
I do not see how either of those statements can be taken to indicate that I feel professionals should pay for any information they get here: that is not what I have said.
Regarding the differences between individuals, dealers, and auction houses, to which I referred: I do believe there are real differences. And some of these relate to choice, and volition. An individual may have a piece they have been given, or inherited. An auction house has little chioce about what is brought in for sale, other than to refuse to take the item. In these cases the owner or agent may wish to know more about an item that has, in effect, been imposed upon them. That is not the case with a professional dealer (as I understand it) as they operate in an area in which they have some knowledge and understanding (I exclude here Dan the Man and his Big White Van who does house clearances). A professional dealer has an object because he/she decided to purchase it, with the aim of making a profit by subsequent sale: the purchase was made following free choice. That is a significant difference as I see it.
Alan
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'morning all.
I think the topic was pushed rather than just drifting! ;D
My last words on the matter (promise!):
I don't know what the difference between
... how about the idea that they should offer a donation - say 10% of sale price ? - to the GMB? ...
and "paying for information obtained from this board" is!
... A professional dealer has an object because he/she decided to purchase it, with the aim of making a profit by subsequent sale: the purchase was made following free choice. That is a significant difference as I see it.
Let me put this hypothetical situation forward:
I buy a mixed lot of 9 paperweights at auction (the only lot I manage to buy that week) because there are 6 in the lot which I recognise straight away and would like to resell. I get them home and, after spending some time with my books and on the internet, I can't find anything about 2 of the 3 which I didn't recognise but I'm 99% sure that I now know what the last one is. My options, as I see them, are:
1) Listing the last weight, stating that it is by XXX, and hoping that I'm right
2) Listing the last weight as "I think it's by XXX, but I'm not sure"
3) Keeping it, but I don't like it that much
4) Throwing it away, but maybe somebody out there really wants it, and it would be nice to get a few more pounds in the kitty
5) Asking those friendly knowledgable folk on the GMB for confirmation that it's by XXX
Number 5 sounds like the best idea, so ...
John. 8)