Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Della on December 11, 2005, 12:34:56 PM
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Hi,
#1 Another unidentified ashtray. Murano?
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10026/green.jpg
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10026/green1.jpg
#2 A cased 6 sided textured red vase. I read somewhere that these are everywhere, or as Leni would say 'dime a dozen,' although I still cannot find out who the maker is, any ideas?
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10026/red.jpg
#3 These I have seen attributed to more than one maker, from Murano to Leerdam. Do any of you genius's know where they actually come from?
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-515
Each has a yellow/amberish, pink, blue and green raised banding.
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I think 1 and 3 are Czech from Bohemia /Chrbska factory?
#2 my personal guess is Empoli, but I emphasise it is a guess.
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Hi
I agree Czech for first item, is the base polished or matt?
Second item is often wrongly attributed to W/F or Davidsons, but there has as you mention been much discussion and 'STÖLZLE OBERGLAS AG & CO, Köflach, Austria' seems to be the suggested manufacturer for these vases. They come in square and multiple sided form.
Previous thread
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,1809.0.html
Last items interest me, I have been seeing them more often in retro glass dealers windows, I have seen smaller versions in a solid amber and green colour, the larger piece is more familiar to me with it's rainbow of applied colours, it is not sommerso, but a clever and interesting technique nevertheless. I think Czech yes as Ivo says - I would love to see a label as these are cropping up more often - I have seen a bowl version about 3" high with the same flanges.
Adam P
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Hi Ivo and Adam P.
Thanks for the info.
The first one has a polished star shaped base.
The third (two), I have just seen a bowl with the identical colours along the sides. It is said to have been made by Bohemia Glassworks, however, there was also no label applied.
I did find this page with labels on for Czech glass products, it is probably already known, but last time I thought that, I was wrong :!:
http://web.gfxs.cz/mo/sponz.htm
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With regard to vase #2. I was just reading through the post you gave me the link to Adam, thanks.
Glen said:The base is usually patterned and not ground.
Mine does not have a patterned base. It is not polished flat either, it has a thin outer rim and then is concave, no pattern.
Ivo said: the yellowish tinge of the glass.
The casing is crystal clear.
I will do some more 'surfing' this evening and see if I can find out more.
I was just searching for an ID for a vase Pip has in another thread and I have now managed to ID #3 in my list. Adam P was curious as to who made these as he had seen a few cropping up.
Well I have found an identical one: (The photos are clearer than mine, but the vase is identical)
http://www.justglassmall.com/stores/barclaygalleries/items/301246/en1justglass.html
It is signed 'Chalet Glass' so not Czec, but Canadian.
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Hi
Della that is a great ID
I forgot about this thread while in the meantime I posted a glass bowl in similar colours with a Canadian label - Identified as Chalet!
A good website link was given - I have looked and also see the vase in question in varied colours http://www.mblaisgallery.com/dynamic/artists/Chalet_Art_Glass_Glass.asp
Adam P
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Hi, Is all chalet signed?
One needs to be cautious about unsigned pieces. Peter and I recently discussed a piece, which seems generic. Our conclusion is that these were quite common, and though others may have followed the trend, some of these pieces are Czechoslovakian, some are designed by Frantisek Zemek, some produced by Teplicke Sklo, Mstisov,(formerly Inwald) and later by Karlovarske Sklo Moser. Unlike Moser proper, which I believe always to have been signed, KSM items may merely have had paper labels, long gone.
Czech glass 1945-1990 (http://www.ysartglass.com/zdbk/Sklounion/index.htm) is, as I am continually finding, an area of surprises.
In Communist era Czechoslovakia, there was a dedicated studio of etched glass, which does not appear in any of the western, English language texts. I found this studio yesterday, but with the exception of one Cz language text, I have never seen any other reference to such a studio. Ostensibly it came under the control of the same organisation that ran Beranek/Skrdlovice.
Regards,
Marcus
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A quote that sums up 'Chalet Artistic Glass' 1958 - 81 "Chalet glass is often unmarked" from a forum I found discussing Chalet.
I think without a mark or label many pieces are attributed to Murano (Chalet was even called Murano Glass Incorporated 1960-62, A-Z fact file pp31), or post war Czech.
It makes sense therefore that many pieces of Murano and Czech are attributed to Chalet. I am not sure how the seller given in the above link assesses what is and is not Chalet - some pieces look so close to Czech, more so than Murano.
I only knew this piece was Canadian ('Chalet' I am told), because of the label - I guess experts can tell, but without the label I could see it being sold as Czech or Murano on eBay.
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3318/canadianbowl3ks.th.jpg) (http://img62.imageshack.us/my.php?image=canadianbowl3ks.jpg)
It would be good to get a list of Chalet labels, marks and shapes together. I wonder if there is a dedicated collector, perhaps based in Canada on the board that could help out.
Marcus the new studio you found linked to Beranek/Skrdlovice sounds fascinating.
Adam P
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Hi Adam,
The etched glass studio in Prague, is being investigated further. The activities of UUR, who ran Skrdlovice, and also controlled the Simice-founded Glass Cutting Centre remain something of a mystery. The glass-cutting centre is documented in a minor way in Ricke, but the etching studio is a new one to me, and was clearly advertised as a individual unit, in Umeni a Remesla, the Czechoslovakian art and crafts quarterly.
regards,
Marcus
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#1 I agree with Ivo - Czech, Chribska and I like it a lot !
#2 Oberglass
#3 Ok this is what most of the discussion has been about but which has perhaps become rather confusing to some. To recap then :
Della's item is similar in style to those discussed another topic.
Marcus and I had thought at one time that there was a relationship between them but the colours in Dellas are more muted and the flanges slimmer - but still solid, Della ?
The piece I post there has been pretty well pinned down as Czech attributed as Marcus says above - so not relevant to your piece Della - as you have found one identical to yours which is signed as Chalet, there can be very little if any doubt, that is indeed what it is. I hope this makes things clearer.
There is only the slimmest chance that someone went wild with the dremmel but Chalet would not be the first choice for profit maximization so incredibly unlikely.
This discussion shows well the potential dangers of ID by stylistic similarity alone.
Signed examples of Chalet are known but I agree that most Chalet is NOT signed, hence the problem of identifying much of it, given the similarity of their forms and styles to Murano and some Czech production. :roll:
Adam P
there is at least one other glass company in Canada which is called Altaglass. I have only seen one example and its not like yours or the Chalet stuff.
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Thanks for the recap Peter, it was getting a little confusing :oops: .
Marcus and I had thought at one time that there was a relationship beween them but the colours in Dellas are more muted and the flanges slimmer - but still solid, Della ?
Yes, solid.
I actually have two of these vases in different sizes.
As for #1.........I love it too. Thanks for the compliment. I am not sure what it is about this style of glass that attracts me. I think it must be the fact that it 'looks alive.' :)
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Hi
Peter thanks for your post - ref Della's #3 vase I see things clearer now.
Marcus and I had thought at one time that there was a relationship between them but the colours in Della’s are more muted and the flanges slimmer
I agree totally and note on looking at more Chalet vases of this type link (http://www.mblaisgallery.com/dynamic/Artwork/PublicDetail__Chalet_Art_Glass_1037_3037_33.asp) that the form including the flanges are more rigid and moulded looking than your lovely colourful Czech vases (you mention this).
I have to say that Chalet seem to have set out to emulate Murano and Czech glass, they have Murano type baskets and bowls and this piece has a definite resemblance to a Vizner design link (http://www.mblaisgallery.com/dynamic/Artwork/PublicDisplay_12_74_314.asp)
I have some Altaglass Peter and agree it is not like Chalet - mostly glass animals? link (http://img445.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altaglass4um.jpg)
I find this an interesting thread and am left wanting to know more about Chalet :shock:
Adam P
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"Yes, solid" >Thanks Della just as well to have that confirmed while we were at it.
"I love it too" >Well if you ever fall out of love with it let me know !
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Adam
I quite like the pink Chalet you show
(eeek whats happening ? I dont like pink !)
"emulate" - good word
I was so tempted to use the c*** word but managed to restrain myself
Vizner design link > That is taking emulation too far !! :o OUTRAGOUS :x
"left wanting to know more about Chalet" >
er like how they sleep at night ?
They certainly seemed to spread it around the globe ...
I was mildly surprised when I began to realise how much of it there is in UK given that we see so little modern US glass and Canada is not a low cost producer. But then we will import anything from anywhere.
Now, Della has shown us that it's in Holland too ! Where else I wonder ? :roll:
Now I'll have to buy a piece to judge the quality for myself :wink:
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I've now got a couple of pieces I'm attributing to Chalet - both very similar to Adam P's beautiful green and blue one in shape but in different colours. Whilst researching these pieces and reading up on Chalet I read somewhere that the reason they're often mistaken for Murano is because the Canadian government brought Murano glassblowers over specifically to set up Chalet Glass. So in a way describing them as such wouldn't be totally inaccurate.
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I think that is true Pip
"Chalet were called Murano Glass Incorporated 1960-62" from A-Z fact file pp31)
I wonder if they brought in Czech designers as well :wink:
Adam P
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Hi,
Stop me if you think I'm being a wet blanket but, I want to flag up one area of concern, before people run to make Chalet attributions for their unknown pieces. One of the things we ask for on this board is the contributors location, which sometimes can help to eliminate possible glass-making countries.
If Della's piece is Chalet, I would expect it to be relatively uncommon-rare.
If Pip's are Chalet, it is possible they would be less than common in the UK also, despite the nature of importation within the Commonwealth.
Without some knowledge of importers, and who brought what from where.... and into which countries, much can be mere speculation.
Clearly family ties, visits from relatives living in Canada, accounts for some Chalet appearing in the UK, and elsewhere.
Anyone seen adverts for commonwealth glass importers? (Frank? Pottery Gazette 1960's???)
True, Chalet is becoming more common, as the diaspora of pieces from Canada to all parts of the globe through the international marketplace that is eBay.
I just think people should be more cautious about this, without first trying to find who, or which company/ies imported it, and in what quantities. Maybe the Canadian Embassy (trade section) in London might be able to help? I'll have a word with the contacts who used to be with Heppners (London) Ltd, and see what if anything. they might know.
Regards,
Marcus
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Not heavily represented in 63 Gazette
Phillip Lazarus UK Ltd, London, agents for Owens-Illinois but also mentions Canadian table-lamps. Chalet were fairly small and might have been imported by a gift trade company or a large/specialist retailer.
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Hi,
I have contacted the Canadian Trade Commission, and am waiting on a response.
regards,
Marcus
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I have emailed a Canadian Chalet collector / dealer asking him to join the board or at least contact me - he has a huge collection and I am keeping my fingers crossed.
Adam P
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Hi
I was out visiting a retro glass dealer today who knows a lot about glass and I bought a small version of Della’s #3 vase – Stephen (dealer) said he knew it was Chalet and showed me a load of mind boggling pieces he feels are Chalet, he has had some in signed (very few) more often with labels. So there I was in Glasgow, Scotland looking at what might be a lot of Chalet and thinking half of Scotland migrated over to Canada (I have several relatives) is there a connection :?: :wink:
This is the vase that has been discussed, 4.5” high 380g approx weight
(http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/3396/chalet10xf.th.jpg) (http://img374.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chalet10xf.jpg)
Now he had larger versions but I thought this would do for research purposes (£6.00)
That out of the way and trying to keep what Marcus said about ‘dangerous attributions’ in mind (nothing is definite here, I have one web contact and Stephen), others opinions may differ
11” long, 4” high, weight 1.3kg
(http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/2194/chalet36ja.th.jpg) (http://img61.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chalet36ja.jpg)
(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1948/chalet3b1mw.th.jpg) (http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chalet3b1mw.jpg)
8” across, 4” high, weight 1.6kg
(http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/112/chalet2b0ip.th.jpg) (http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chalet2b0ip.jpg)
(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/347/chalet21ub.th.jpg) (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chalet21ub.jpg)
Now from the website link I think my pieces (two above) can be seen, or shapes very close to them – the colours seem right.
If …. and I say If these two pieces I bought are Chalet, they are good quality – the transition from one colour to another is perfect, they seem hand blown and are finished off nicely – ground and polished base.
Both bowls and indeed the vase (#3) show signs of age wear with a fine scratches to base, they feel 1960s, perhaps 70s
I hope this does not confuse the issue or give people wrong ideas, the glass was available and I bought to add to this debate – Stephen will call me if he gets labels or signed pieces in.
Thanks
Adam P
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Thanks for the nice images, Adam.
With my less than perfect knowledge, I would have these down as:
image one: Teplicke Sklo, Mstisov, (formerly Josef Inwald) from @ 1958, which became part of Karlovarske Sklo Moser (Not signed and usually just a paper label),
the second item, Chribska, and the third, unknown, could be any company who made this type of art glass.
My own view of Della's pieces (always with the possibility of making a complete prat of myself) is that like your item, these are most likely Teplicke Sklo/Karlovarske Sklo Moser.
See this item from KSM's "Rhapsody" range, designs originally by Frantisek Zemek, 1958, for Teplicke Sklo, Mstisov (part of Borske Sklo following the break-up of Sklarny Inwald narodni podnik) complete with KSM label.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7411788447
regards,
Marcus
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Good Point Marcus
I spoke somewhat out of turn in generalising to such a degree. Apologies.
I have seen many like the signed one that Della found on Ebay UK.
I have also been following, along with Terry, the type of Chalet which looks like Murano for some years, which has appeared both in UK and US, occaisionaly signed and occaisionally with a label but often just "suspected" because of colors, sizes and the flamboyant forms. Laura has confirmed some as "not Murano" on the Murano board.
Now comparing Della's with Adam P's first item above - I would have sworn that they were from the same maker !!! Both would seem to have flanges alternately springing from above then below, twisting towards the base. Allowing for size difference the similarities seem overwhealming to me !
His 2nd item (pics 3&4) I can confirm is Chribska as I have now seen labeled examples. I call this the "lips" bowl for shorthand and the labeled ones are Czech Republic so post-1992.
Adam P's Item 3 (pics 4&5)
Colors look rather muted for Chalet.
There aren't many makers of this style of glass as far as I know but I am becoming more aware that some German makers have produce in the proto-Murano style too particularly in this brown + green color combination. I am thinking not only of Jackmann for WMF but suspect there are others.
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Interesting thread and I feel I should add a bit about Chalet. Very hard to research as I have discovered. I do have one piece and it is signed with an acid stamp "Chalet Canada" Michele Blais gallery is a wonderful site, but I have noticed things on there that I know are not Chalet. The last time I looked, there was a piece of Viking listed. So caution should be the word. Terry
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Just saw this item on eBay UK
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7416439415
anyway, it fully endorses what Marcus has been saying - I would have sworn blind it was Chalet had it not had a Czech label on it :?
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Hi Pip,
One point about Wayne's label, on this item. This is an original importers' label, not a factory etikett.
Regards,
Marcus
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One point about Wayne's label, on this item. This is an original importers' label, not a factory etikett.
Ok so does that mean that it was imported by a Czech company but not necessarily manufactured by one? Because the listing implies that it IS a Czech piece of glass. It also looks a lot like mine which is photographed on a site attributed to Chalet that someone earlier on in this thread said had glass on it that definitely wasn't Chalet! Confused? Yep totally LOL
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Hi
Marcus thanks for your response - I sidestep the web link now (I take glasswizard's point) and Stephen's (glass dealer) opinion.
I trust you on this subject more than anyone; I know you are the top researcher in post war Czech glass – that has taken you into researching similar glass (process of elimination).
My item #2 Chribska – agreed and I love it – it was £5.00 and Stephen has many shapes, what presents for people!
Item #3 all I can say is the base is finished off exactly the same as #2 and in my very humble opinion if it's not Murano (looks like it's not Chalet - I am not calling anything Chalet now without a label or mark), it is Czech - the quality is there (but I am often wrong LOL)
Pip your photo is very informative, thanks - I think Marcus is saying the piece in your photo is most likely Czech made, but has an importers label (like G Hardy with Scandinavian glass), who knows it may be Sklo Union or Crystalex (just examples) - the importers label is actually quite fascinating.
Now to my first item, Teplicke Sklo, Mstisov sounds great to me but like Peter I feel confused as in my opinion it looks like a scaled down version of Della's vases. Now I know one has the Chalet mark link (http://www.justglassmall.com/stores/barclaygalleries/items/301246/en6justglass.html-) so are you still dubious about Della's Chalet attribution or my piece as a comparison, I have to say your Teplicke Sklo, Mstisov photo makes a stronger argument now I have had time to look it over.
Thanks everyone - I am taking this real slow and careful
Adam P
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Pip wrote:
Ok so does that mean that it was imported by a Czech company but not necessarily manufactured by one? Because the listing implies that it IS a Czech piece of glass. It also looks a lot like mine which is photographed on a site attributed to Chalet that someone earlier on in this thread said had glass on it that definitely wasn't Chalet! Confused? Yep totally LOL
Hi Pip, sorry if my message was not clear.
Wayne has a piece of glass, of Czech origin. It was imported by a British company, hence the label. I am very confident that Wayne's piece is NOT Chalet.
What Terry (glasswizard) was saying is that the site which has been quoted as the premier site for Chalet, allegedly has several erroneous attributions, and therefore, should be treated with care.
I can say from personal experience is that Wayne is knowledgeable, and takes the greatest care with attributions, and if documentary evidence is given, is amongst the most scrupulous of dealers in rectifying bad information.
Whilst his piece of glass only has an importers label saying it is Czechoslovakian, this is a familiar form from Chribska.
Regards,
Marcus
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Adam wrote:
Now to my first item, Teplicke Sklo, Mstisov sounds great to me but like Peter I feel confused as in my opinion it looks like a scaled down version of Della's vases. Now I know one has the Chalet mark link so are you still dubious about Della's Chalet attribution or my piece as a comparison, I have to say your Teplicke Sklo, Mstisov photo makes a stronger argument now I have had time to look it over.
I need some clarification here. Are you saying Della's vases are marked , acid-etched whatever, as Chalet?
Jan Kilian has an unidentified bowl, executed in a similar manner on his site, which he dates as 1970's, but no maker. Is it just me with a Zemek catalogue, thus wanting to see a dream piece, or am I seriously deluded?
I cannot publish images here for breach of copyright reasons.
regards,
Marcus
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Hi
I have had a look at the picture in the Zemek catalogue and it is a dead ringer for Della's vases and my own :shock:
Without a mark on my piece and with new evidence provided I will indeed attribute my little vase to Teplicke Sklo, Mstisov as you first said Marcus.
Thanks as ever
Adam P
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Hi, Adam,
I must make it clear that the catalogue image that you have viewed is over forty years old. There was no attempt, as there would have been in a Glassexport catalogue, to give dimensions, this was after all, a post-humous exhibition , for some-one percieved as a major glass artist of the era. Zemek's graduation piece, a beautifully self-cut vase, sold in Germany for nearly 5,000€, @ five or six years ago.
So why is Zemek important?
Frantisek Zemek,born 1913, died 1960, was arguably the sole link between the modernists, Kotera et al, and the new Czechoslovak avant-garde artists in glass.
Smrckova, continued in the modernist tradition for many years, at Ceskomoravske Sklarny, Sklarny Inwald and others.
Zemek, was interested in both studio glass, and mass-production. He produced designs for off-hand work, pressed glass, and cut/polished work.
That his designs were important is un-doubted, he delivered designs for the "Rhapsody" range for Teplicke Sklo, and another range "Harmony" around the same time.
In my humble opinion, Zemek in his approach to off-hand, free-formed work, whether with refinement, or not, led the fledgling new generation of czechoslovakian designers, to the future.
I am not suggesting he was the Messiah, merely a man with an unsurpassed knowledge of his chosen area.
Whilst Vizner is seen as collectable, it is not inverse snobbery to prefer Zemek..... his time for recognition will undoubtedly arrive, and soon.
Regards,
Marcus
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HI
OK so I am not totally finished with Chalet - here is link to an eBay auction
link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7406608482&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr12_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT)
Seller kindly sent me the acid etched mark (she has it posted on the page now as well)
(http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/8563/e117uh.th.jpg) (http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?image=e117uh.jpg)
Was Chalet as rarely signed as I thought?
Adam P