Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Anik R on August 16, 2010, 09:35:41 AM
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This large 27cm cut lead crystal vase has been in my family for a long, long time... It was in my mother's childhood home (Kraków, Poland) and it belonged to her grandmother.
Is it possible to identify the origins/year?
Though it's an old-fashioned piece with little appeal today, I really must say it's wonderful. Unlike my more modern Polish cut lead crystals, this vase gives off such a beautiful and long ring. It even rings with the touch of a finger which I think is amazing.
Thank you!
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I've received a suggestion that my vase could be by BOHEMIA PODĚBRADY glassworks. Any thoughts or ideas?
Thank you :)
P.S. I read in an on-line Czech crystal guide that some pieces may have over a 30% lead content (as opposed to the regular 24% or less)... considering the sound my vase makes, I believe that is true of mine.
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sorry you haven't been inundated with replies Anik - it's a great piece, and the all over cutting is quite amazing - would look great with an electric light behind it. Is that a ground and polished clear pontil mark on the base? The lead content provides for easier cuting I beleive, makes the piece ring well, but most importantly gives the glass that sparkle and brilliance when cut. However, I am unaware of the benefits of 30% lead content as opposed to the standard 24% - maybe it enhances the sparkle even more.
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Hi Paul... thank you for your interest.
I believe you're right -- lead content (and proper cutting) increases the light refraction properties of the piece. ;D (Showing off my new word here). The lead also gives the crystal its beautiful ring. Unfortunately, my vase is almost half matt which reduces its 'sparkabilty' somewhat. As for the base: There is a star cut into a circular shiny 'island'. The island appears slightly taller than the part around it, but sits flush to the base's rim. (In other words, the rim tapers/slopes towards the center of the piece. At the center, there is that island, which is a bit taller...). Am I making any sense? :huh:
The vase is very obviously hand-cut as the patterns are 'imperfect' and each slightly different from the next... this is especially visible towards the bottom of the vase. Oh, and did I mention the beautiful ring it makes??? :)
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I have two Bohemia Podebrady catalogues:
http://picasaweb.google.cz/Jindra8526/BOHEMIA1984?authkey=Gv1sRgCOzExPCkh6__jwE#
http://picasaweb.google.cz/Jindra8526/BOHEMIA1983?authkey=Gv1sRgCK2Yr7zA9Ki3hAE#
and one older from Sobotka
http://picasaweb.google.cz/Jindra8526/SOBOTKA?authkey=Gv1sRgCO310J_6mPHAngE#
but the same pattern I have not found. If it is Bohemia, than 70ties or later, but it can be also German glass not Czech.
Take a look to catalogues, you will discover that "Bohemian taste" is a bit differnet and cutting is richer.
Jindrich
www.webareal.cz/ceskoslovenskesklo
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Hello Jindrich :)
Before I posted my vase, I did take a look at all your catalogues and did not see this pattern... But I was still hoping. ;)
I believe my mother brought this vase to Canada in the mid-60s, so I suppose the 'Bohemia' hope is out. But I will ask her one more time about this vase. It could certainly be that I got my stories and pieces mixed up... I do have quite a bit of old and older crystal given to me by my parents, and each with a different history. :-\
I will check.
Thank you!
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The problem with this Bohemian Crystal is that even today are people able to made so "old looking" cut pieces that to estimate anything is very dangerous.
Bohemia Podebrady made this cut glass very industrialy and semi-authomatic, therefor it looks less attractive.
The value of traditional Bohemian crystal vary strongly. Naturaly in the centre of Prague you can buy overpriced but excellent pieces, at flea market however the same and sometimes better ones has very low value, nobody here needs and wants it.
We all have at home the case with our cut crystal inherited from grandmas, complete sets never used :-)
Jindrich
www.webareal.cz/ceskoslovenskesklo
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Oh my... now this is horribly embarrassing... :pb:
I've just finished talking to my mother, and she told me I'm completely confused, but that she loves me anyway...
This vase was given to her in 1994 ( :o) by her aunt... 1994 -- not 60s or 50s or 40s or 30s. Granted, it was used when she was presented with it, however it's nowhere near as 'old' as I thought.
:24: :24: :24:
The 'old-fashioned-ness' of it messed up the stories in my head. The 'old' grandma piece I have (according to my mother) is actually a very modern-looking crystal decanter and shot-glasses. Who would have thought?
:thud:
I'm such a silly cow.
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Awwww Anik, don't feel bad! :hug: We all get muddled with stuff at times :-[ and at least you were able to go and check with your Mum :rah: (and she still loves ya! :kissy: aren't Mums wonderful?!) :hiclp:
I think that your vase is gorgeous whenever it was made. I've not seen one like it before. :sun:
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Thank you, Anne! :kissy: I knew I could count on you for sweet, consoling words...
Now, could you possibly take this thread and shove it in a deep, dark hole to make sure no one ever reads it again??? I've got a reputation to up-hold, you know.
:24:
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Oh Anik! :hug: :hug: No-one will think the worse of you...You really have to stop being so hard on yourself! These crystal vases are incredibly confusing when they're not marked.
I was surprised that this one was old though because of that shallow-etched star, which I associate with the more modern crystal sold under the label Bohemia Crystal. The feature tends to be much shallower than the true cuts, and also have a slightly frosted look. It seems to be a slightly cheaper automated way of adding detail? But do the modern Polish makers use the same trick?
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If you really insisted, we probably could make it vanish... :nogos: but I still would like to ask the question about the etching...
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Cathy, thank you for the kind words :kissy:.
I'm not quite sure I understand your question, so please do be patient with me... Modern Polish cut crystal (at least the pieces I've handled) do have slight differences in length, width and depth of cut. Deep cuts (which I believe are handmade as they are not uniform within a set) are clear while the shallow cuts used for small details are always frosted and with a very 'freehand' appearance.
I think the thing which threw me off with this vase is, first of all, the design. It does look old-fashioned, and it is not what I've ever seen in Polish production. I think my imagination, combined with my fascination with the 'ring' it gives off, blinded me to any other aspect. I obviously overlooked the quality of the cuts. (I did, however, notice that the top matt part was machine cut while the bottom clear part was cut by hand -- the crosses are uneven and vary in sizes.)
Ahhh... it's alright... you live and learn.
Now, about that hole... ;)
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Typical Bohemian cut had been invented in 1929 by Mr. Prostrednik and is known as pattern PK 500.
Since that time up to now is reproduced and used with slight modifications.
Just after the velvet revolution in 1989 many manufacturers and cutters focused to this typical Bohemian cut and shops in country were overloaded with this type of crystal. Do not panik Anik, yours one from 90ties is ot worse than the pieces I have in my case surely produced in 50ties.
But I would like to focus you to different style of crystal cut.
Designers like:
Josef Pravec
http://picasaweb.google.cz/Jindra8526/JosefPravecGlasrevue?authkey=Gv1sRgCKrop7yQ6Yv6HQ#
Vladimir Zahour
http://picasaweb.google.cz/Jindra8526/VladimirZahourDomov19815?authkey=Gv1sRgCJf9gPyC0enIvAE#
Jiri Repasek
http://picasaweb.google.cz/Jindra8526/JiriRepasekGlasrevue197083?authkey=Gv1sRgCPm-wsD-__3ZhgE#
Ladislav Oliva
http://picasaweb.google.cz/Jindra8526/LadislavOlivaGlasrevue?authkey=Gv1sRgCJuM1aGKh9ytzAE#
Josef Svarc
http://picasaweb.google.cz/Jindra8526/JosefSvarcGlasrevue?authkey=Gv1sRgCMHfoczBuK2D7QE#
had spent their lifes in searching new form of cutting leaded crystal in Podebrady and some of their designs were really brilliant.
Seems to me, that demands of marketing people and sales from Glassexport did focus them to rather traditional "bohemian cut" using PK 500 pattern or floral decoration and the space for experimenting was for these designers very limited. Anyway, some great, very fresh and modern pieces had been created and are very colectable in nowadays.
Jindrich
www.webareal.cz/ceskoslovenskesklo
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Jindrich, thank you so much for the links... I most like Repasek's, Oliva's and Svarc's designs. They are absolutely beautiful! One day, I will have at least one of their vases in my collection. :) I will, I will, I will...
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Eek! ;D
Thank you, once again, Anik, for such an entertaining thread. :hiclp: ;D Don't you ever delete this!
It is especially now after Jindrich's additions to the field of cut crystal utterly interesting and mind broadening:
I have to tell you that since I am not at all interested in "old-fashioned cut crystal" I did not read this thread at all but now that I was thinking why on earth it gets so long...!? ;D Really, now I would also like to find some of the beautiful more modern examples.
And I think it was very useful for us possible future Prague tourists to think of the crystal spread in that area - expensive for tourists but found all over in every home...