Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Cazza on August 26, 2010, 01:46:25 PM
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Hi please can anyone tell me is the onion or o puffa vase one that is faked at the moment, does anyone have a picture of the base of an onion/puffa vase please? Enquiry if for a friend who has bought one and i am not sure about it.
Many thanks
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As far as I know, there are repro/fake versions of the onion, hooped and bricklayer vases, The easiest way to tell them apart is using the colour as a guide, the reproductions are not in Whitefriars colours. Compare the colour of the onion vase to a bit which you know is correct or have a look at the colour guide here: http://www.whitefriars.com/colours.php
You could post a photo on Whitefriars.com or here for the inmates to pontificate over. ;D
John
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Hi I only have a pic of the base, the pontil does look polished, the other part of the base in not correct it is a fake, they bought it from ebay and I have found the item on there. item no. 220649284087 the base is all wrong, I was right its a fake, not sure where they stand with this one as the seller does not say its Whitefriars, but it is listed in the Whitefriars catorgory. She showed me this vase today am waiting for her to email me the height, I shall have to give her the bad news.
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Take a look at what else he has for sale. The sooner this guy is thrown off of Ebay the better.
Seems every piece glass he gets with a polished pontil is made by Wfriars.
The way he groups genuine pieces and very dodgy pieces together in the same shot is well out of order.
I wish you the best of luck
Regards Mike
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Yep, you've said it all Mike. Without "handling" it, it is difficult to say from the photo if it is fake or not!
The easiest way to tell them apart is using the colour as a guide, the reproductions are not in Whitefriars colours
In the case of the fake "green" it so happens it is a very good colour match for Whitefriars Meadow Green.
Some of the fakes have a letter "V" scratched into the base, others do not. Mostly they have a moulded and slightly "wonky" pontil mark, rather than a ground and polished one.
The price paid for this one under discussion was very cheap if it is genuine, usually go for £150 ish............so suspect that it was considered by the collectors of these onions (I am not) that it was fake.
As a matter of fact this seller is "peculiar" to say the least, and several people I know are keeping an eye on him for various reasons.
As for getting any compensation for this seemingly bad purchase, I think that is impossible as the listing was innocuously written, as indeed most of his listings are.
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What are ebay doing allowing this. Its very wrong, fraudulent I would say. Thank you for your input, will tell the lady when she emails me later today.
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I wonder where the lady will stand with paypal complaint, as its listed in Whitefriars not in art glass or whatever, so they are implying its whitefriars
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They could claim an error. Look how many pottery items turn up in glass. And, as Emmi says, the listings are mostly innocuous and vague about "who made it"
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I don't think she will have a leg to stand on. So much glass is listed in the wrong category.
This seller has bought a lot of genuine Whitefriars, and as Mike has said, puts it in the background of his photos as a selling point. He's done it a lot with bark lookalikes,
advertised some other textured non Whitefriars pieces as rare Sky Blue without saying the W/F word..........designed purely to deceive. He has been reported to ebay but nothing has ever happened to any of his listings. He buys Riihimkai items listed correctly and then tries to pass them off as Whitefriars. I have been reported by him to ebay (nothing happened) just when I've tried to put him right. I don't bother any more, what's the point. ??
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I have reported some of the listings which are claiming wf but of course are not. makes me very angry.
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LOL! Have a look through this lot.............and another puffer vase in "aubergine". this definitely looks fake to me. Apart from the pontil which he shows, there is an abundance of clear glass around the outside which is another pointer.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/g4glass/m.html?_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A3133&rt=nc&_ipg=&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_sop=10&_sc=1
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Hows about sending him a link for this thread and see how he reacts????? >:D
Mike
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I have been reporting his listings, not sure what will happen
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In the case of the fake "green" it so happens it is a very good colour match for Whitefriars Meadow Green.
Thank you Emmi, I had not realised that.
John
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I definitely think it's worth trying a SNAD - Item Significantly Not as Described, through Paypal
It may be that you'll need to find an expert to say it isn't what it was implied to be, there are plenty of dealers here who would be happy to help, myself included.
I wouldn't even go into the fact it doesn't actually say Whitefriars in the listing, it is in the category and was described in deliberate Whitefriars terms- Paypal aren't glass experts ;)
This seller needs to learn a lesson.
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Hi Robert
I am waiting to hear from her will let her know of your offer. I also buy and sell glass but it would not be right from a friend I am no expert either.
Kind regards
Carol
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Well, I'm not saying I'm an expert - but I'm a Power Seller & Top Rated seller who eBay 'know', so they might listen to me.
I'm happy to help in any way I can
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On past experience with PayPal regarding a "smashed to pieces" item, where the seller said that I had smashed it myself because I didn't like it .....LOL!......despite sending photos of the smashed item, I had to take to a dealer who had shop premises and headed notepaper to get a declaration from said professional dealer, saying it was smashed!!! How stupid is that???
As the description of the item ( as follows)
I HAVE FOR SALE THIS DELIGHTFUL RETRO MEADOW GREEN COLOUR ONION PUFFER VASE IN PRISTINE CONDITION WITH NO DAMAGE, CRACKS, CHIPS OR STAINS. THIS HEAVY LITTLE VASE LOOKS STUNNING WHEN ON DISPLAY AND WILL MAKE A GREAT ADITTION TO ANYONE COLLECTING THESE FAB AND UNUSUAL VASES........
is ambiguous to say the least, I really do think it is unlikely they will look at it seriously....sorry to be negative. Seller describes all his green things as Meadow Green, and on W/F.com several vases have been on the IS IT? section for ID, described as "onion" vases just because they are sort of onion shaped!
Having said that, though, as Robert says, he needs to be taught a lesson, and maybe an effort to get recompensed and the hassle involved to seller, may alleviate some of the pain .
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It's a bit hit and miss with Paypal Emmi, I would definitely have a try, and, as I've said, would be happy to help.
I would suggest firstly that it's in the Whitefriars category, a recognised Whitefriars style, and that 'MEADOW GREEN' 'ONION' & 'PUFFER VASE' are all recognised terms used to describe Whitefriars, and Whitefriars alone, and that it was pictured alongside genuine Whitefriars pieces.
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I am aware of the inaccuracies & omissions in some of the listings but can I gently remind folks that this board has a policy about discussions of sellers and items for sale, and this topic is heading towards being pulled as in breach of it:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,6521.0.html
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Hi Anne
I had no idea i was breaking or nearly breaking a glassmessages rule, If i have there was not intent, and am very sorry.
Regards
Cazza
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Sorry Anne..........didn't realise that we were skating on thin ice!
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Me neither ..
(and still not entirely clear why after reading the regs)
Just trying to help a buyer who has been duped
But I won't post about it again if it's a problem :)
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The important thing is to keep it simple and factual, and avoid accusing anyone of anything. So you can call a fake a fake, draw attention to the fact that an auction wording is misleading (and give reasons), but you can't accuse the seller of fraud.
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I think 'deceit" is the implication on my posts, not fraud. I have taken pains to say the listings are "ambiguous" and "vague" and that the item in question was not being described as Whitefriars, which it wasn't. It's just another all too frequent case of some sellers trying to attract unsuspecting buyers by using "specialist glass terms"
relating to a particular glass manufacturer, in this instance Whitefriars.
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I think what you've written is fine, Emmi, but the thread in general is skating a little bit close to the edge. I agree totally that it's important that these things be said though to protect innocent buyers.
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Hi,
One thing that could help other potential buyers who use this dealer is to give him some Negative feedback. Currently he has 100% freedback .
Just a thought and hope my suggestion is not against the rules..........
Regards, Patrick.
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Definitely!
A carefully worded, unemotional neg. will at least be a warning to others- after all, that's what the facility is there for.
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She has not emailed me yet, I do not know her id so have no way of contacting her. will have to wait until i see her again next week at our local auction. Someone there told her to show it to me to see what my opinion on it was and the base made me suspicious.
Will let you know when i hear from her.
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There are a lot of copies of Whitefriars items available now from several sources not only Baxter designs , so be careful ,some of them are not as easy to spot .
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Great piece of work here which is pertinent to this thread:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,35723.0.html (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,35723.0.html) :)
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To date only the small Bricklayer, the large Hooped vase and the Onion vase have been subjected to mass produced copying.
Emmi has posted a link to a great identification facility Wolfie Rayner has put together. :)
They're all in this thread: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,35723.0.html (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,35723.0.html)
It's also worth checking out Emmi's superb 'Wannabees' Blog to see the pieces that often try to get passed off as Whitefriars.
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Thanks for the "plug" I should say that I have some "blips" on the Wannabee blog at the moment and will have to redo it again soon. It does not scroll all the way down to the bottom, there are two points at which you have to click on "Older Posts" to bring up all that is one it. Such is technology!!! :cry: