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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Bernard C on December 16, 2005, 12:28:35 PM
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In a local charity shop:-
Laurence Whistler, The Image on the Glass, John Murray, 1975, 79 b/w plates, d/w, fine condition with slightly foxed endpapers, £14.99.
Is this a reasonable buy? I am rather wary as it could well be vanity publishing.
Bernard C. 8)
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Publisher: John Murray in Association with the Cupid Press
Certainly sounds like it but not all self-publishing should be considered "vanity". There can be many reasons why an author chooses to go that route.
The revival of diamond point engraving in England was started in the mid 30s by William Wilson and Laurence Whistler independently of each other. Both were self taught.
http://www.diamondpoint.fsnet.co.uk/history.htm
Sir Laurence Whistler CBE, (1912 - 2000) is described as an "outstanding artist" on the same page.
I have the strongest feeling I saw a copy of this in my local second hand book shop. Despite the stunning photos I didn't consider it, as another book on engraved glass I tried to sell drew no takers at any price.
I have to admit that while in awe of the craftsmanship and artistry involved, very little engraved glass appeals to me personally. It would seem I'm not alone. Despite this prices at Amazon UK for this book start at £38.
He published another entitled Scenes and Signs on Glass in an edition of 1,200 this time with Woodbridge / Cupid Press.
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Bargain, not vanity publishing
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There used to be a copy in De Slegte (Amsterdam main street 2nd hand book dealer) @ not much and I decided to not get it on three seperate occasions for the same reasons as outlined by Peter.
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Hardly what I would describe as vanity publishing.
Alongside David Peace's book; "Glass Engraving: Lettering and Design" Batsford 1985, it records a renaissance period for English engraved glass. As Frank says, bargain.
The reason for the "in association with Cupid Press" is relatively simple. There are limited private 1st editions of at least three of Whistler's books, as Peter observes of @ 1200-1400 copies. Murray and others will have seen these sell out, and then bought a license to print public editions. Very common publishing company behaviour. Its called "caution".
Regards,
Marcus
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Thanks, everyone. I did wonder how much use it would be to me. On reflection, I will probably give it a miss. I think I can recognise fine engraving by now without having a book of one-offs taking up space on my bookshelf. And my local library can get me more or less any publication via inter-library loan within a week or so.
Also I have overspent on publications this month, having bought a small collection of '60s & '70s books, mostly on old English drinking glasses. ... and the subject is in no way as boring as I thought it was!
Bernard C. 8)
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Whistlerswork is arguably the best in the world. Owning a piece is restricted to the wealthy and Museums, a book is a good substitute as many of his works show well in photographs, if lacking the depth of the original piece.
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Bernard,
If a copy comes cheaper I'd be surprised. What I would say, and this applies to D. Peace as well, is they had a lot of private clients as well as corporate and museum/collections that they did work for. The reality is that their work may well turn up rather more often than people would think, often in unusual places, and for the most part unrecognised.
Early pieces could be expected to start appearing in the next ten years with increasing regularity.
Regards,
Marcus
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... The reality is that their work may well turn up rather more often than people would think, often in unusual places, and for the most part unrecognised.
Early pieces could be expected to start appearing in the next ten years with increasing regularity.
Marcus — you stirred memories of a report of one of the great engravers working at Blackpool, so I found it, fairly quickly, ref. Hajdamach, Two Bohemian Engravers Rediscovered, in Glass Association Journal #2, 1987. Apparently Wilhelm Pohl also worked on the seafront at Blackpool for two seasons where he engraved tumblers etc. with names and mottoes. The high cost of hiring a stall was prohibitive, and Pohl decided it was unprofitable and he gave it up after two years.
This would have been some time in the 1870s or 1880s. Another connection is that a water jug owned by Pohl's descendants, and engraved by him with a view of The Devil's Glen, Co. Wicklow is similar to the frontispiece in Whistler's book.
Anyway, the point I was making is that a fairly comprehensive collection of engraved souvenirs from Blackpool is quite likely to include one or more examples of Wilhelm Florian Pohl's work. As always, the problem is how to identify them, apart from the obvious point that engravings featuring Blackpool Tower could not have been by Pohl, as the tower was not built until 1894. In his day the main attractions would have been the piers.
... I seem to be becoming something of an expert here on Blackpool Tower! I have fond memories of Blackpool as I worked on the Pleasure Beach in summer 1969 in between finishing University and starting work as a trainee analyst/programmer.
Bernard C. 8)
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Laurence and Simon Whistler were also responsible for The Finzi Bowl, to commemorate the English composer Gerald Finzi (1901-56). This was a private commission and presented to his wife Joy in 1981, but can be viewed at the Ashmolean Museum in Oxford.
http://www.ashmol.ox.ac.uk/ash/exhibitions/exh014.html – although the link isn't currently working.
Slightly off-topic...
I mention this as I have an interest in the work of the Finzi family and know son Nigel quite well. In particular my interest is with Joy Finzi (1907-91) who was a very under-estimated artist, poet and sculpturist [sculpter?] and have created a web site devoted to her work ( http://www.joyfinzi.com/ ) - work in progress.
If anyone is interested in Gerald or Joy's work, feel free to ask. The Finzi Friends are also currently gearing up for the 50th anniversary of Gerald's death next year.
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Hi All,
If you want to see some wonderful examples of his work, visit Morton church in Dorset. Nearly all of the windows in the church have been designed by him.
Regards
Chris
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Laurence Whistler’s memorial window to an unknown pilot shot, down in 1940, was commissioned anonymously by his widow and commemorates a youthful marriage cut short by war. The imagery, together with the transparency and fragility of the medium - engraved glass - suggests something lovely that is lost. Despite the specificity of personal detail, the memorial window transcends not only the personal, as wartime widowhood and the loss of a lover was an experience shared by many women, but also the period, as romantic love ending in tragedy is a recurrent theme in Western culture. Unlike many war memorials, this is not a military portrait, nor does it contain any patriotic or religious inscription, just initials and the year of marriage 1939-40. This paper will argue that the window is not only a commemoration of absence but also a celebration of a life shared.
Diane Hughes
Engraved on the Memory
Laurence Whistler’s Engraved Glass Memorial Window, St. Nicholas’ Church, Morton, Dorset
Association of Art Historians Website
http://www.aah.org.uk/confs/2001aah/2001s5.html
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Morton sounds familiar to me, as we camp near Corfe Castle each year, and know Dorset well. So I looked in my atlas — no luck. But browsing around the Internet, I discovered that Whistler's window was at Moreton. A Google search on Whistler and Moreton was most productive; here is one example: http://www.gattonhouse.co.uk/dorset/moreton.htm
Moreton is about six miles east of Dorchester, on a pleasant country lane route that follows the south bank of the River Frome for part of the way to Dorchester. This summer we stopped at the little cemetery, about 150 yards SW of the church, to visit Lawrence of Arabia's grave. As it was a nice day, we explored the village. The map showed the river just to the north of the churchyard, so we walked round the churchyard looking for access, but no luck. I never thought to look inside the church! So we walked back to the road, into the village, and found a lane by the Post Office that took us down to the river. I think we only saw a couple of dragonflies and a few small trout. In all, I think we must have passed through Moreton three or four times this summer; considerably more than a dozen times over the many years we have spent our holidays camping near Corfe Castle.
How about that for a wierd coincidence!
Bernard C. 8)
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HI All,
photographing engraved windows in a church is very difficult. Here are some from Moreton church:
http://www.stewart-consultancy.com/images/moreton_1.jpg
http://www.stewart-consultancy.com/images/moreton_2.jpg
http://www.stewart-consultancy.com/images/moreton_3.jpg
http://www.stewart-consultancy.com/images/moreton_4.jpg
http://www.stewart-consultancy.com/images/moreton_5.jpg
Regards
Chris
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Thank you Chris
a refreshing change from stained glass and surprisingly effective.
Photographing them at night would probably be a lot easier - you've done a good job in the cirmcumstances.
The sun rays and tulip tree ? gardenia ? motifs seem to work very well.
I think I see an RAF tailplane (bottom right) and I guess the stylized P is one of the initials referred to by Diane Hughes.
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Thanks everyone for your comments and photographs. I bought the book, and have not regretted my decision.
Whitefriars fans would find it interesting as it contains references to Wilson independently taking up diamond-point engraving at the same time as Whistler in about 1934, to Whistler engraving Whitefriars blanks, and to a design by Whistler going into production at Whitefriars. That makes it three books I have bought this year containing unexpected material relating to Whitefriars.
... and we will be visiting Moreton this coming summer, and going into the church! There is also a window by Whistler in Stowe church, just a few miles from me, so that will probably be the first example of his work that I will see. It will be interesting to compare the style with the expert copper wheel engraving of Mr Douglas of John Walsh Walsh, which I know quite well.
Bernard C. 8)
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As we are again on holiday in Dorset, we went to see Whistler's windows in Moreton church.
Words do not describe them. Amazing. A must for any glass lover. The galaxy window is particularly magnificent.
... and, if you walk north, over the long bridge next to the ford, the conifer wood you come to is one of the best places in Britain to see crossbills. Difficult to see, but easy to hear crunching their way through pine cones, and the gentle rain of pine cone fragments is a giveaway. As always, we didn't see or hear them!
Bernard C. 8)
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Another year on and we spent another afternoon at Moreton while on holiday, this time with my daughter Abi, who loved it.
In the intervening year I had noticed the following in the guidebook to the windows:-
Techniques
For the apse windows Laurence Whistler made full-size designs which were carried out by the craftsmen of the London Sandblast Company, in deep cutting, acid etching, and sandblast. More recent windows like the Dream of the Rood and the Trinity Chapel one have been wholly engraved by himself using scriber and drill. Others, like the Galaxy window, have a basis of light sandblast — with some polished cutting, in that instance — provided to his full-size drawings by the craftsmen of T. and W. Ide, chiefly Dennis Richardson; on which the artist worked up the design with his drill.
So I was particularly keen to see the results of the different techniques. The contrast between the apse windows and the Galaxy window at opposite ends of the church was most striking. The apse window designs are quietly ephemeral, almost ghostly, whereas the Galaxy window shouts with exuberance at you with its glitter and sparkle. Wonderful.
One query. The author of the above quote refers to the "London Sandblast Company". Is this the same as the "London Sandblast Decorative Glass Wks. Ltd" of Burdett Road, E3 as shown on the label of the advertising paperweight pictured below?
Bernard C. 8)
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How fascinating Bernard. I look forward to one day visiting this church. All I have is a lovely book called St. Nicholas, Morton, The Engraved Glass Windows, printed by Henry Ling Limited at Dorset Press. It has very good photos and explanations.
I have a copy of Point Engraving on Glass by Laurence Whistler which has a bit of everything and everyone, but the best and the latest and a MUST for all interested in stipple engraving : On A Glass Lightly by his son Simon. Simon sadly died in April 2005, I would have loved to have met him. The book shows many works of both father and son.
After Simons death, his wife came to our Guild of Glass Engravers AGM and had a selection of some very precious pieces for sale. I am very privileged to now own one of only a few of the very tall Whitefriars goblets . This was one of the collection of the Late Laurence and Simon Whistler's "Blanks". It was designed by Laurence in 1960 and made by Whitefriars.....Will I engrave it?...after all that is what it was created for.....but me thinks probably not (I can see you all freaking out :o ) It is far too precious.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-8249
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You should engrave it... only stipple of course >:D and as a tribute to father & son. Add the story of the glass to the foot and it becomes a unique piece of history. Left as a blank it just another glass - as far as I know there are no collectors of 'blanks used by famous engravers'.
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HHmmm, I am very surprised and intrigued at your comment, Frank. ;)It does give me food for thought and a nice subject idea. I have stipple engraved before , but I don't like the fact that so much work is only properly seen when very well lit. As I type I am picturing a combination of various techniques involved in this tribute, the stipple areas showing parts of their most famous work. (I am best at copying) . As a blank I see it as his canvas on which he may have imagined many scenes but never got to doing one, a sort of mystical ghost of a goblet, which in its own right is absolutely magnificent.
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As a blank I see it as his canvas on which he may have imagined many scenes but never got to doing one, a sort of mystical ghost of a goblet, which in its own right is absolutely magnificent.
And most others would see a plain glass... or an unused blank ;)
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Yes, but if it's made by Whitefriars then it's got a provenance that's worthy in its own right, without engraving. :)
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And most others would see a plain glass... or an unused blank ;)
..as your "Tectonic vase" to me is a plain purple vase , another blank canvas... ;)
...and I absolutely agree with you Max. 8)
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..as your "Tectonic vase" to me is a plain purple vase , another blank canvas... ;)
OUCH... that was a 'special' creation by the designer, who might be less than amused ;) LINK (http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=133&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=2444&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=51)
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Frank, I am illustrating and agreeing how differently we see glass. I am an engraver and only see pictures in the glass, pictures that flow in sympathy with the shape and tone of the glass. The maker of this piece would not necessarily be "less than amused" if he were to look into my mind and see the beautiful images I see flowing in the glass he made. You see now ;) :mus:
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Lesley, I agree with you totally. I do the same when painting my stuff (not glass!) - the way the designs fit the piece is determined by the shape and flow of the piece itself.
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Sure, Anne, it is like the sculptor who sees something hidden in a stone or piece of wood. To me it is just a nice old piece of wood :hb1: :)
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I have another amazing book by Laurence Whistler: The Initials in the Heart. It is his love story. A stunning book with beautiful pictures of not so much his engraving, but the love of his life Jill Furse, a young actress who he was married to for 5 years before she died. Laurence was a poet as well as an engraver, so the book is written in exceptionally decorative English, some of it I find I have to concentrate very hard to really appreciate.
I have not actually finished reading this book (not enough time in my life at present) , but it is a must for those who appreciate wonderfully written English and a heart rending love story.
(I had thought that this could be a subject for his blank goblet I have, a dedication to his love and to include some of his poety and her love letter quotes) 8)