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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: vidrioguapo on September 23, 2010, 12:34:52 PM

Title: Registration number 543290 help please
Post by: vidrioguapo on September 23, 2010, 12:34:52 PM
Can anyone help with and ID for registration number 543291, please.  Have already done a quick search in the obvious places, but not come up with anything.  TIA
Title: Re: Registration number help please
Post by: Paul S. on September 23, 2010, 01:25:56 PM
May I ask please if you are taking this No. from an article made of glass?
Title: Re: Registration number help please
Post by: vidrioguapo on September 23, 2010, 03:44:12 PM
Yes I am..........in fact it is a live ebay listing
Title: Re: Registration number help please
Post by: Anne on September 23, 2010, 04:31:47 PM
Probably a design registered in a different class but also made in glass. Dates from 1909 though. A link to the listing might help us work out who the maker might have been, Emmi.
Title: Re: Registration number help please
Post by: Anne on September 23, 2010, 04:38:52 PM
Ahhh I think this is the item you mean Emmi?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280565117902

The number is 543290 not 543291 (that's why eBay search didn't pick it up earlier for me.)
Title: Re: Registration number help please
Post by: vidrioguapo on September 23, 2010, 04:48:32 PM
It is described as rare Whitefriars, but can't say I have come across Whitefriars with a registration number before.  The vase is, though, a Whitefriars shape............so I am all confused!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WHITEFRIARS-CLOUDY-GREEN-JADE-GLASS-VASE-7-Rd-No-RARE-/280565117902?pt=UK_Art_Glass&hash=item4152fbf3ce

Whoops, sorry Anne, dyslexic today!!
Title: Re: Registration number help please
Post by: Lustrousstone on September 23, 2010, 06:03:25 PM
Is the cloudy green a WF colour? It looks like uranium glass to me, but nothing I have in jade has a rough pontil mark.

Edit - Is that sort of green, WF cloudy green?
Title: Re: Registration number help please
Post by: vidrioguapo on September 23, 2010, 06:29:09 PM
 
Quote
Is that sort of green, WF cloudy green?

Well from the listing photo I would say no, it looks too light to me.......?
Title: Re: Registration number help please
Post by: dinklepip on September 23, 2010, 08:20:52 PM
Nazeing glass?  I had a similar depth of colour in a powder bowl some time ago
Title: Re: Registration number help please
Post by: johnphilip on September 23, 2010, 08:54:32 PM
This has been a mystery for some time and we have gone over it on W/Fs.com i believe .
I have had at least five , never seen one in that colour most are in clear glass some regd some not , i had one in sanctuary blue . I feel the green one is not W/Fs i am sure Nigel was envolved in the disscusion .
Title: Re: Registration number help please
Post by: vidrioguapo on September 23, 2010, 09:14:04 PM
I've a complete blank on that discussion on w/f.com............but this doesn't look the right colour apart from the number.............
Title: Re: Registration number help please
Post by: Bernard C on September 23, 2010, 09:36:10 PM
Astonishingly, neither of the two Whitefriars reference books contains a list of design registrations, patents, and registered trade marks.    It's where you start with research, and the two museum-trained authors should have known this and done it.   Timberlake, Reynolds, Gulliver, Cottle, Stewart & Stewart, Bowey & Parsons, and even Williams-Thomas, none of them museum professionals, all did it, properly.

So far I've found eight Whitefriars design registrations in the period 1890 to 1945, none of which I've ever seen marked on their glass.   543290 is not a Whitefriars registration, but that of a London designer.   The vase was certainly made by Whitefriars — Jackson lists it as pattern 916 — and they made it in two sizes, but it could have been made by others, so, to be certain of a Whitefriars attribution, you should check the registration on the base with a known Whitefriars example for a match on the lettering.

The standard reference on this design registration is Gulliver, p.86.   There is no need to plagiarise Mervyn Gulliver's work here as anyone seriously interested in British glass will own or have access to a copy of this important publication.   If not, please buy one or borrow it from your library.

Note that I don't comment on live ebay listings.   My comments here are on a registered design.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Registration number help please
Post by: Lustrousstone on September 24, 2010, 06:28:40 AM
There is one interesting major difference between the one in Gulliver and the ebay listing. The Gulliver one was made in a 16-rib mould. The ebay one is rib-free, which implies a different manufacturer to me. The engraving also may be in a different hand.
Title: Re: Registration number help please
Post by: Bernard C on September 24, 2010, 07:49:45 AM
Christine — The Jackson one (same size, 7", as the Gulliver example) was made in a 20-rib (or, possibly, 22-rib) dip mould, and I'm now suffering from eye strain!   :spls:

The number of ribs, including no ribs, could have been dependant on a variety of factors, including:
  • Who was making it,
  • What dip moulds were to hand or available,
  • What type of glass was being used, and
  • Any preference expressed by an important trade buyer.

    • I would go for one or more of these before regarding such differences as indicative of a different manufacturer.

    Note that the blue book doesn't list this registration, so it's probably not a glass registration, and may have been intended originally for manufacture in metal and/or pottery/china, although I've never found one.

    Bernard C.  8)

    ... later ...   Bonhams example here (http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4162922&iSaleNo=17212&iSaleSectionNo=1), large size again, has 20 or 22 ribs.
    Title: Re: Registration number help please
    Post by: Anne on September 24, 2010, 01:12:47 PM
    TC has a ribbed one with the same RD no on it - discussed here some years ago: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,16536.0.html - he shows a closeup of the number on his too, so it can be compared with the eBay one. :thup:
    Title: Re: Registration number help please
    Post by: Lustrousstone on January 06, 2013, 06:56:22 PM
    This is one like the one Emmi asked about. And it's definitely uranium