Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: ejean9 on September 23, 2010, 05:40:12 PM
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I think this pw is stunning..found among old carnival glass pieces so have no idea of age..it was filthy and i mean filthy..thick with grime ! when i washed it i was amazed..its fab..to be honest im not a lover/keeper of many pw due to space but this one is rather nice..any ideas folks ? no marks but is big 3 x 3 inch 754 gram in weight..
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I am sure it is Scottish, 1960s -1980s: maybe Caithness, maybe Selkirk? Nice enough, but don't book the cruise...!
Alan
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thanks Alan..lol i cant swim so the cruise is out..maybe a day in Blackpool ? :thup:
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Reminds me a bit of the only Paul Ysart Fountain I was able to find on the net. My knowledge is minimal of Scottish weights.
Ross
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i have had look at the fountain pw but the only pic i could find was not that great..so hard for me to tell..
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If referring to Paul Ysart designs, then the weight is not a "Fountain" design; it is a "Harlequin". And it's a "double Harlequin" because it has two layers.
See my reference page here (http://www.btinternet.com/~kevh.glass/pages/catalog/py-fountain-harlequin.htm) for PY Fountains and a Harlequin weight.
The Paul Ysart "Harlequin" is basically the same principal as the very, very many "Frit and Bubble" weights made in Europe from the late 19th to early 20th century.
The weight in question has a look that is similar to the Caithness Glass versions of "Harlequin", because of the "large" pieces of coloured glass in the layers. But Alan may be right in suggesting Peter Holmes (at Selkirk Glass) as another possibility.
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Thanks Kev..so many names it is hard to keep up..but interesting going on the hunt for the maker ;D
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As a rather prolific Selkirk collector I'd say definately not Selkirk, dome shape is wrong for a start, base is completely wrong. I could of course post pics of the selkirk ones I own if you want?
Ian
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Hi Ian
Thank you for that..would be nice to see some so i know for future ref !
Jean
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Looks very similar to the Caithness weights, first issued in 1972 (both Single and Double Harlequins). They come with either 6 or 8 peripheral bubbles ... but usually contain a signature cane - either PH (Peter Holmes for 1972-1975) or CG (1976). This cane might be distorted, however, and difficult to identify: can't see it on your images, but you may want to have a closer look for it.
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Im pretty sure I have a caithness example or 2, and an Ysart one as well, will put a picture of them up when I get the chance!
Ian
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Thanks folks..Wuff i have had a good look but can not see any sig canes..what i have noticed is that there are small inclusions of gold and copper which i had not noticed before..i could be missing sig cane as my eyesight is not great. 7 bubbles in total..6 around the outside and i centre one..how did they create pieces like this ? with two seperate layers ? it is rather amazing to look at..and although i dont normally keep PW (i usually give them as presents lol) i think i may just keep this one.
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... how did they create pieces like this ? with two seperate layers ?
Actually with 6 or perhaps 7 layers!
1. First gather of clear is covered with the blue/white ground
2. Coloured bits are added over the ground
3. Clear is then added
4. Another layer of blue/white
5. Another layer of coloured bits
+ "ice-pick" type of tool used to create indents through to first layers
6. Clear added
this stage creates air bubbles at the indents; the bubbles rise hopefully only to a desired point
7. More clear added if needed
+ whole thing is shaped to final form
Note that several stages of shaping will have been done to achieve the needed shape for each subsequent stage.
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I remember reading an article by Colin Terris about how Paul had showed him a double Harlequin, and after a suggestion from CT went off and made a Triple one... - if I'm recalling correctly - I'll need to go and hunt down the article and confirm later.
Given that this does not use a normal CG ground (Peat, heather etc hot melt), and does not look like a Harland era ground to me, (tho no expert)
- i'm wondering if this is a trial piece of Paul's c1970, using his crushed/frit glass ground, and a bridge piece between his original single harlequin and an evolving double harlequin design?
Both his single and double Harlequin designs were released to CG in 1971 I believe, first appearing in the 1972 catalogue.
The Double harlequin became a much taller dome design in production.
Other possibilities include:
1) an apprentice's trial piece, rejected, sold in the CG factory shop - although would normally have been marked CIIG on the base, not all were.
-or could have been polished off....
.. but it should have had a CG cane in it post 1975, if intended to be a sale piece if it came out OK. - but still the wrong ground....
2) possibly a David Hurry piece? I know David produces fish weights and others in the late PY Harland style - you can see them on his web site.
-but don't know if he ever emulated harlequins.
My bet is that it could well be an early PY trial piece, sold in the CG shop. UV testing needed?
Just in case it is a PY trial piece -I suggest you don't sell it, but wait and see what other info may appear to confirm or deny this possibility.
Perhaps if you live near Kev H he could do a UV test on it for you?
Andy_n
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The Triple Harlequin that Paul Ysart made in response to Colin Terris' query was possibly the first he made at Caithness Glass but not the first he had ever made. He had made several (magnum) Double and Triple Harlequin type weights in earlier years and the ones I have seen all appeared to be 1930s period. See my page here (http://www.btinternet.com/~kevh.glass/pages/paul-ysart/unsigned/RareHarlequin.htm) for one of my two examples (1 Double, 1 Triple) which I am now reasonably sure are Paul's work from the 30s.
Given that Double and Triple Harlequin style weights are known from Paul's earlier years, I don't think a "1970 trial as a bridge" from Single to Double would have been needed. But I accept the possibility that Paul could have made some personal Doubles at some point at Caithness Glass to see if he still had the techniques for these, and one of those was seen by Colin Terris, which started off Colin's interest in that type of weight.
The blue/white jasper ground on ejean9's weight was something I did not want to comment on until others had offered various ideas on attribution. Yes, it looks like a Paul Ysart type ground, and he certainly made quite a few jasper ground weights (possibly all signed) at Caithness Glass. But did anyone else use that type of ground?
Perhaps it could be a Paul Ysart weight. And perhaps it could have been a demonstration example to show other Caithness staff how to make them. That might also explain why the coloured bits are so much like the regular Caithness Harlequin weights.
But this is all conjecture, really. I was hoping that somebody might say "Aha! I know what that is".
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wow folks that is loads of great information..i think i have a uv light someplace so will test it later..i just think it looks beautiful..
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I had forgotten that Paul made earlier versions - i'm not well researched on all PY varieties and dates.
I agree about the colour chip combo - and this was probably the main thing that made me think of Paul's late CG era - the strong similarity to the CG colour chips used...
The blue jasper ground - looks a bit coarser than the others he did at CG I thought, such as the fine pink ground on dragonfly weights?
I've just clarified the pix and cleaned them up a little, and compared them to my early and late CG single and double Harlequins...
The colour mix is in fact more akin to the pastel chips used in PH's Tropicana and PH made Harlequin from 1972 onwards than the later colour mix.
Also, on clarification, the ground is beginning to look like a CG ground or ground-cover- I need to check this against others more closely.
All of my money is now on 1970-71 at CG - experiment (or 'Artist's Orginal') for the CG range.
Now ready to crash and burn....
No other catalogue weights at CG pre 72 used coloured chip mixes like this, nor afterwards, that I can think of, until the arrival of Moonflower Rainbow in 1994 - and that was different. What is the likelihood that Paul used an almost matching colour chip combo pre CG, or even early years at CG?
Peter Holmes might cast light on it... ..I'll email him and see if any thoughts....
andy_n
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Hi folks..after searching high and lo for my uv light..it was broken..used a blacklight on it and it shows up green but it seems to be much stronger around the clear bubbles..i dont know if that helps in any way ? meanwhile i will try and get another uvlight..