Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Sweetglass on September 28, 2010, 01:43:14 PM
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Hi there, I really need some help.
I have some Caithness glass, some Svaja glass and was trying to start a Muran glass collection. I only have a few peices but they are fantastic.
I was silly enough to think I could get a bargain on ebay. I purchased what i thought to be a Murano glass bowl on ebay. The pictures were fabulous looking. When i received it, it was full of imperfection in the glass, bubbles, lumps on the surface the colour in it looks badly done and I am very certain it is nothing special at all.
On further inspection i found that the seller had purchased it from another ebay seller only days before. the other seller sold it as a glass ashtray nothing special. I then paid 10x the cost!!
Could someone have a look at the pictures and give me your opinions. The 1st what the seller used to entice me and the 2nd is the original picture of the ashtray which is more what it looks like.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180556581214
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280550543016
I am in the middle of a very upsetting resolution case on ebay whereby the seller is refusing to let me return it.
Thanks in advance.
Edited to say that the seller described it as- Amethyst & Indigo Murano Sommerso Art Glass Petal Bowl
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sweetglass, did the seller give permission to use the picture? If he/she didn't, perhaps the moderator can remove the picture and you could give a link to the auction.
It is difficult to tell if this type of ashtray is Murano glass. The seller's picture appears to have been taken with a flash and your picture taken without flash. Otherwise the ashtray looks pretty much the same. Flash can bring out colors and often change the appearance of a piece of glass.
I do not know if the ashtray is Murano glass. My thoughts are, however, that the ashtray in the two pictures look very much equivalent when adjusted for lighting differences. I actually find the second picture more attractive. As for the imperfections -- older Murano glass (through the 1950s) is famous for bubbles, bumps, and ash, so the imperfections can't be used to tell if it is Murano or not.
We have all had disappointing purchases on eBay, particularly when we are learning about a particular type of glass. The good things about mistake purchases is that we learn a lot from them. It isn't a bad ashtray unless you paid overly much.
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The form could be Murano, but it's not sommerso; nothing is submerged in anything. Cased, maybe...
Six people besides you thought it was worth having though
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Sweetglass, I've taken out those images as they belonged to sellers on ebay, not to yourself. I've provided links to the two auctions you meant instead.
Firstly, many of us here buy glass on ebay and then re-sell it. There's nothing wrong with that at all, so it's no good complaining that a seller bought something as 'nothing special' and sold it to you at a greater price. :)
Murano glass is not without imperfections. If a piece of glass is handmade, then chances are it's going to have (as TxSilver said above) bubbles, bits of frit or ash or lumps on it. So...as long as the piece conforms with what the seller said, ie it's got a small scratch on it, then you can't complain about that either.
Howeevverrr....the photos seem to be vastly misleading for colour IF the original seller (who sold it as 'an ashtray') are correct. The colour variation is far greater than differences in monitor settings and appear to be misleading.
Don't muddy your claim against the seller by citing 'it's not perfect' or 'you bought it as an ashtray', that's not the point. You can simply say that you feel the photographs were misleading colourwise and hope that should be enough.
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I am glad the links were posted. The listing could be a study in how not to use flash. With all the dazzle of the pictures, it is hard to tell what the ashtray even looks like. If you believe the ashtray does not look like the pictures and want to return, I'm sure PayPal will understand. After looking at the auction, I understand better. Lighting can sometimes mislead.
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I don't wish to comment on your specific transaction but I have to say that I have purchased from this seller in the recent past and was more than satisfied with everything connected to my purchase and felt him to be reputable and found the item to be as described by him.
Furthermore, are you just assuming that he bought that exact other piece and re-offered it, or is it just a hunch? There are plenty of similar pieces and even if your assumption is correct, that is what many ebay sellers do, if they don't purchase from ebay then they do the same from car boot sales or auctions. Ebay is a business for many people.
I think the seller only has to accept a return if it is substantially different from the description
I can understand your disappointment, it has happened to most of us, the thing to remember is that glass photographs can be so enticing that the image is sometimes more attractive than the piece which arrives through the post!
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Also the listing was for a sommerso piece and this isn't sommerso, so could that also be cited?
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Furthermore, are you just assuming that he bought that exact other piece and re-offered it, or is it just a hunch?
Look at the second seller's feedback as a buyer.
If you can't reach a satisfactory conclusion, the buyer has the advantage in the feedback stakes.
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There is another point that really isn't important to returning. The blue color is not indigo. Indigo is almost a purple. I wonder why the seller chose the word indigo to describe the blue, since the color showing on the ashtray is simply "blue."
I don't have the ashtray in hand, but if it looks like the one being sold in the other auction, I have to side against the seller. Anyone who takes and processes a lot of pictures knows that one can adjust lighting, contrast, and sharpness to make a piece of glass look like a totally different animal than what it is. The buyer depends on the pictures to be true to life. It's okay if they look worse than the piece, but not better. (What buyer has ever complained about something looking even better than the pictures?) IMO, a buyer cannot be responsible for a seller who uses flash incorrectly or adjusts the contrast and sharpness of pictures to create an image that is not true. If the bowl does not look like the pictures, the problem lies with the seller. I would have to have the ashtray in hand to know for sure, but I'm sure Sweetglass can tell.
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BTW, I have to add you can get a lot of good bargains on eBay. In my case, I have trouble with about 1 in 10 transactions. Sometimes is worse than others. The normal problem is some undescribed damage or bad packaging. eBay is a great place to buy the type of glass you mentioned, so I wouldn't let one bad transaction spoil the chance for the good deals that are there.
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Thank you for all your replies.
I was upset with the look and quality of the purchse and complained to the seller long before I actually discovered the ashtray listing. The seller confirmed that the ashtray is the one she sold.
The colours and flash are very misleading, and everyone who has handled the glass since then has agreed that it is cheap and of no value.
You are right there is a lot of fantastic feedback for the seller. But on the other hand i have extensive feedback and i have never left negative feedback.
The descrition- "the 2nd most beautiful peice of glass I've ever had the privilege of handling and adoring" gave me the impression that they were selling something they have owned and admired in their own home, and would know the origins etc of it.
I am glad the links are there, I was not sure if you could link to ebay.
Thank you all again.
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Well, everytime when you see this type of glass - we call it "hutni sklo" always consider please the Czech origin.
It must not be old but quite recent.
Yours piece is simmlar to piece 239 from
http://www.jeskloma.com/katalog/katalog/hutni_sklo.htm
More "hutni sklo" links:
http://www.ckv.cz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=15&Itemid=20
see blown glass
or
http://www.glass.2es.cz/MainSubcategory.asp?Cat_ID=ht&New=
I will make some overview about current stage in hutni sklo and I will put it to my web to help eliminate "Murano" from eBay.
For example user Kebluzek from Czech republic:
http://shop.ebay.de/kebluzek/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340
Murano or Moser, he surely know that he is offering Chribska or ZBS, I will write him love letter :-)
Please give me some time, I will prepare some guide.
Jindrich
www.webareal.cy/ceskoslovenskesklo
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Thanks for the Hutni Sklo link Jindrich...there's some nice looking glass there. :thup:
Sweetglass said:
The colours and flash are very misleading, and everyone who has handled the glass since then has agreed that it is cheap and of no value.
You are right there is a lot of fantastic feedback for the seller. But on the other hand i have extensive feedback and i have never left negative feedback.
The descrition- "the 2nd most beautiful peice of glass I've ever had the privilege of handling and adoring" gave me the impression that they were selling something they have owned and admired in their own home, and would know the origins etc of it.
The piece of glass you bought is not 'cheap and of no value', but just doesn't look like the photos. It's for you to decide whether you think it's Murano or not before you buy. Half of this problem is down to your inexperience in buying glass on ebay and your naivety in sales techniques that some people employ. :-\
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It is a jungle 'out there', both on ebay and in antique centres. Many sellers have no specialist knowledge - all they want is a description that will interest buyers.
We have all made mistakes buying from ebay and elsewhere, anyone who claims otherwise is deluded. I recently bought a vase (on ebay) and did not notice a small crack in it until I photographed it, I had already left positive feedback for it and could not be bothered to complain.
The mistakes we make make us 'better' buyers, (hopefully) we learn from them and don't repeat the same mistake over and over again. The steeper your learning curve, the fewer poor purchases you will make in the long run.
John
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Thank you for the links Jindra8526 i actually have a few pieces i recognise on there passed down to me from grandparents. I always wondered about the origin.
Thanks for all your help guys. Its my 1st experience of anything like this on ebay and i'm finding the whole thing rather upsetting.
Regards.x
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First, I agree with Anne, this is not a Sommerso piece of glass, so it is SNAD, or significantly not as described.
Secondly, I have some very colorful pieces of Italian glass in those colors... None of it "glows" like the pictures.....
Third, and I may sound like a broken record here, but use Paypal, use a credit card on Paypal and never your Paypal balance of funds, and then if there is any hesitation on the part of the seller or Paypal/ebay to back you on the return, dispute the sale through the credit card and they will almost immediately reverse funds and investigate. If you tell the credit card company it is not what the pictures looked like, and it is not a Sommerso piece, they will have you return ship it and it is a done deal.
Ebay is not really out to protect you... they are out to protect themselves. Your seller may or may not be concerned with you being happy..... Your credit card company cares deeply about what you buy online using their money.... Paypals credit agreement with the card companies requires them to accept chargebacks from credit card companies.... and those go straight through Paypal to the seller.... Paypal can not really contest them at all....
Craig
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Adding some information to what Craig said -- it is best to dispute a charge through PayPal and not your credit card company. PayPal now charges merchants a $20 chargeback fee when a buyer charges back through their credit card company. If a piece is SNAD, then PayPal will refund your money. It may take a few days, but they will. It is best to go through your credit card company only when you are really mad at a seller and want him/her to be penalized the $20 fee. Otherwise, PayPal dispute resolution is just a good, though a bit slower.
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I was remiss if I did not say to try to work it out with the seller first..... I always do..... but if they choose to resist or not cooperate, then your credit card company is a great alternative.....
Craig
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I think the rules are slightly different in the UK in that we're only covered by credit card co protection if the purchase is over £100? But I still think a SNAD is the way to go here.
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What is SNAD please?
In Czech "snad" means "maybe" or "perhaps" so it does not sound promissing :-)
Jindrich
www.webareal.cz/ceskloslovenskesklo
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First, I agree with Anne, this is not a Sommerso piece of glass, so it is SNAD, or significantly not as described.
Craig
:hi:
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SNAD is the abbreviation for significantly not as described.
John
Oh dear, that's the second repeat. :pb:
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Hi guys
I'd like to say that you guys have been amazing, I will run any future purchases by you!!
I had been working with the seller with emails back and forth for about 10 days, the seller told me to esculate the case to ebay which i did and they found in my favour and I am also being given an extra £5 towards return postage so thankfully I can put this down to experience.
I just cited what you said about colours in photo being misleading and the fact it is not Sommerso.
Thanks
Cherylle (Sweetglass)
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Congratulations..... I am glad it worked out for you.....
Craig
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I am almost sure that this piece is Czech
Jindrich
www.webareal.cz/ceskoslovenskesklo