Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: a-mighty-wind on October 11, 2010, 02:58:38 AM
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Not sure where to start with this one....ground polished pontil, put together very skilfully. 6" tall and 6" across.
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Hi there:
Not sure what the technique is called, but I thought I had seen something like it on the Net. I *think* what I saw was referred to a "Lace, or Laced Glass"....IMHO, if I remember correctly.
Nice Bowl there !! :thup:
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Can't find aything similar on the net.....only thing I see with a similar applied lace edge are referred to as bride's banks
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Just a guess.....but here are just some pics that I was *thinking* of in relation to your bowl -- just the lace design idea....Samples ONLY on for the lace design (not for a maker....)
http://www.tias.com/13968/PictPage/3923575055.html
http://www.goantiques.com/scripts/images,id,1677507.html
Maybe there is another name that goes by -- I was just referring to what I had seen via the net that remind me of it....Someone else may know better.
;)
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Think the technique is called 'caged', pretty sure its Murano, I have a piece, I think of very good quality and seen several more over the years. Seen a couple of older pieces, well executed, so I think its quite a traditional technique and a few of the age of yours and mine and a few fairly hideous and badly executed ones. Yours and mine I would guess would be 60s ish. Mine has always reminded me of that time period anyway. I do not, but would love to know the maker.
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Mine is a rosebowl, shape of a pear, about 6 -7 inch diameter, clear crystal glass caging with clear leaf finial above. Really traditional Murano shape! Think you are meant to stick flowers through the caging and into the attached, solid bowl below. The way the glass has been stitched on to the bowl (the bottom of the pear) is incredible! The bottom is red, dusted with gold dust, forgotten what the Italian term for this is.
Have to say I have always been on the lookout for othes with attribution! The person I bought it from swore it was Venini (she would wouldn't she) if correct, I had always wondered about Zuccheri!
Veronica
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reminds me a little on diatret glass - but its far away - never seen on live unfortunately
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Roman_diatretglas.jpg
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can't find 'caged' in my books jinxi :) - and not sure what you mean by - stitched on to the bowl . Regret I don't know how this effect is produced - is it mechanical or hot worked.? Other similar forms of decoration have been popular since the C18 ....such as .......hand made 'basketwork' that imitated woven wicker........Sowerby, who prodcuced their 'pierced' plates in slag glass by pressing. But Thomas's 'diatreta' is, apparently, created by cutting back through thick glass (the cutters were called diatretarii) - so this bowl not that method. Tiffany used it (diatreta) as pure hand worked decoration on some 'favrille' pieces, and Gulliver shows examples with this effect on both the top and bottom of C19 art glass, and calls it 'stylized trellis work' - which sounds o.k. - and similar to the attached pic. - which also hand applied I believe. Hope there is not too much objection to my pic.
The piercing on the blue bowl looks very symmetrical - therefore possibly machine made?? :)
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machine made ? never ever :sm:
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I'm sure I would defer to your expertise any day Thomas - which is why I didn't go in too heavy with my suggestion. :wsh:
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:or: :or: :or:
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Hi ,
This glass is obviously based on the 18thc origionals known as cherry baskets, thought to have been made in Liege and or Bohemia some also think they could also have been made in England, they are usually of good quality lead glass, this piece probably takes it influence from those earlier pieces but is of a much later date I think, below is a photo of my basket and plate,
Peter.
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stunning Peter :mrgreen: :mrgreen: - you appear to have a slightly smaller version than the piece shown in Felice Mehlman's book 'The Illustrated Guide to Glass' (incidentally a very worthwhile book that I would recommend to everyone) -page 142. If you want to see a very good example of the more modern Tiffany take on 'diatreta', try page 113 in the Grovers 'Art Glass Nouveau' - gorgeous. :) But none of which is really helping 'amw' - perhaps someone else can contibute please. :)
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In the 'Glass In The Rijksmuseum' catalogue they are described as 'open work mesh pattern',made of smooth threads nipped into an open work mesh. and in their day in the 18thc they were very expensive items,the open mesh work being entirely hand worked and time consuming.
Peter
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You guys are great!!!! nothing super helpful yet but all of your passion for glass is very appreciated. It it is most definately not machine work. Let's keep it going....even if we can't ID the piece as a novice I always learn something.
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Definitely should not be could 'cage' or diatreta as that has a very clear meaning. Don't like the term 'lace' but 'open work' sounds good. It is simply trailed in the air. A good glass making chair could do this on the rod as in Peter's examples but it could presumably also be done over a hot mould which would result in a relatively smoother inside as there would be some falltening of the threads were it contacted the mould.. These can also be made by solo lampworkers and would then tend to be more delicate.
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Not talking about your bowl here but just thought it worth mentioning that Frederick Carder also did some of this type of work for Steuben around 1912, think the literature refers to them as lattice glass. They are illustrated in Gardner's 'The Glass of Frederick Carder' and in Dimitroff's 'Frederick Carder and Steuben Glass'. The lattice glass tends to be a little more irregular and 'open' than that it oldglassman's beautiful piece.
Veronica
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correct !! :clap:
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Are we completely ruling Steuben out of the pic??? Looked at the book Jinxi mentioned and the piece looks very similar to the "lattice glass" pieces in The Fredrick Carder and Steuben Glass book. But the form is Diff....The color looks similar to a Steuben piece I owned years ago.
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Hi there, really like some of the stuff you are posting about, inidividual and quirky! Sorry, not had time to photo my piece for you yet. I am pretty convinced mine is Italian, I suspect yours is too! Don't know a huge amount about Steuben but added the article to add a little to the general subject. Think - not absolutely sure - the Steuben ones all date from a fairly long time ago and that yours and mine are mid to late 20th century but hopefully I will get to upload my images and other people may add something useful into the posting too!
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Here is a link to a set of photos on Flick'r
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55140067@N07/sets/72157625115737873/
Veronica
Mod: Posts tidied up to show just the correct link.
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Did check for flattened threads as per Frank's posting suggestion but the lattice threads do not appear to be flattened internally and therefore, I assume, mine has been done 'on the rod'.
Veronica
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Your piece is great....very similar lace work......mine does not have threading like yours.....I emailed a pic of mine to the Rockwell Museum to see if maybe Fredrick Carder had a hand in it but no reply yet.
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Let me know what they say would you as now that I have seen mine again I am nowhere near as sure that it is actually Italian!
I saw a 'vase' on Ebay a couple of months ago - quite tall with jagged lattice sides in royal blue, turquoise and clear which reinforced the Italian feeling I had. Will check and see whether I can resurrect the photo.
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Veronica, I'm not sure if you still see posts on the board but I've added some thoughts on your pear shaped threaded bowl on this linked thread
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,55281.msg313313.html#msg313313
m