Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Gary on October 13, 2010, 08:18:42 PM
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I am doing some research into Monart Glass. In particular, if it is possible to distinguish a pre war Monart “Y” shape and a post war Monart “Y” shape, I choose the “Y” shape as it is one of the most commonest of the Monart shapes . The different type of base finish is where I suspect the answer could be. I have nine “Y” shaped pin dishes with only two type of base finishes, either photo 1 or photo 2. I am leaning towards the type with the base polished flat i.e. no pontil mark left being post war and the type with the base polished and the pontil still visible being pre war. Out of the nine, six have the polished base finish, with three of these having post war labels and one in post war colour way. The type with pontil still protruding, I believe to be in pre war colour ways. This is pure supposition on my part, as it is such minute sample of ”Y” shapes .
What would be of immense help if members could look at any “Y” pin dishes in their collection and photograph the base and email it to me or post on this board, along with the size and any relevant information. This is for my own personal research and not for publication anywhere else.
Click on the link to view the pin dishes in my collection.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-13482
Pictures of bases
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-13543
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-13542
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-13541
Many thanks in advance
Gary
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;)
link (http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=147:my-last-assumption-dating-monart&catid=24:john-moncrieff-limited&Itemid=13)
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Gary,
I assume you have checked Frank's link which gives his thoughts on the subject. If you still require pictures for your own research contact me on k dot barraclough at talk21 dot com and I will be happy to give you some more data for your research.
Keith :sc:
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Hi Keith,
Nice to know you are still around... my last email to you bounced, sure it was that address!
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Hi Frank,
Still around and always checking the forums for anything interesting. The email address is still the same!!
I was disappointed to miss the glass conference as I was out of the country at that time. I hope things went well for you all. Was Bill over from NZ?,I don't know if he is still after all the catalogued shapes or not.I've not spoken to Gary M for some time but I know he watches the forums so he'll maybe phoneafter reading this :)
Best wishes,
Keith
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:hi: Me, sir!
I can answer for Bill.
He was here, :thup: full of the joys :sun: :sun: (as is his wont) :sun: :sun: :sun: and yes, he's still trying to get all the shapes. :thud:
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Thanks Sue
Keith :sc:
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:rah:
Just did a search on eBay for Monart, first in a looonnnggg time, just 2 out of 13 hits were good. Sad. Remember eBayWatch and the fireworks that caused :sc:
Completed auctions at 11/23 but oh dear what poor pieces and cheap... Wow. Perhaps I should start collecting again :P
But I could by a flat in Monart Road for 140k :wsh: to house the collection! :24:
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I have read Frank's piece " My last assumption ? Dating Monart" and agree with his assumption on the subject. I hope to go a small step forward
with this and see if it is possible to date Monart depending on what colour ways were used with the different type of base finish.
Thanks Keith any data you can give me would be much appreciated, I will email you my email address.
This photo is of two Y shaped pin dishes with the same colour code of 156, one post war the other pre war and there is a pronounced difference in the red used.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-13568
Gary
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Reds certainly changed with the red used in the 20s not appearing later. Kügler/S&W colours were used both before and after the WW2 see entry for Schuster & Wilhelmy here http://www.ysartglass.com/Ysart/YGcompany.htm
I state there 'until 1939' but I have (going on memory) some records of post war purchases by Moncrieff so this is perhaps not entirely accurate. Some glass makers would be able to recognise the colours produced by S&W. So once you have a range of pieces try and visit one with them. If you can identify a post-war only colour you will have proof. But do bear in mind that they used the same recipes after WW2 as it was the same chemist in the new company.
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Hi Frank/Gary/All,
After taking some photographs of shape Y dishes in my collection I noticed something that I was going to bring to your attention that may be of interest you all. On the base ring of one one of these dishes is an acid etched mark which I am assuming possibly another retailer's mark like the FBS mark already documented. As you will appreciate the mark is quite small and the macro on my digital is not that great but I would describe it as a laurel garland with the letters S & H or S & W or S & R. I look forward to all your comments.
Keith :sc:
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Keith — Imagine you are Schuster & Wilhelmy's representative and you need small, light samples of your colours. How about Monart shape "Y" — only 3¾" 95mm diameter, 1¼" 31mm high, just 5oz 150g in weight, beautifully made, stackable, and with plenty of room inside for a label to be pasted with your colour codes. And just to make sure you don't get them muddled up with any others (they were popular as ashtrays), you get them suitably acid-stamped.
Wow, Keith, what a fabulous find. Rep's samples are the crème de la crème, and, in this case, each is probably unique.
... and what is particularly nice about them is that, if any others have been found, they've been almost certainly been attributed to and sold as Stevens & Williams!!!
I'm green with envy. :mrgreen:
Bernard C. 8)
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Saw your post Keith and thought super, great find! I bet Bernard would have something to say on that... scrolled on and there you go :thup:
Nice thought Bernard but it could be something else! Let's find some more of these marks folks!
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Hello all,
I did see Frank's previous reference to S&W as an assist to Gary in his quest but did not make the link Bernard :-[ On reinspecting the mark with an eyeglass I still cannot give a definitive answer as to what the second letter is. Did Schuster and Wilhelmy incorporate a Laurel Garland in their title? An interesting thought Bernard.
Keith :sc:
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The dish is possibly post WW2 which sort of throws a Schu & Will attribution out of the window.
and ten plus years on we have still not solved FBS could we have another long term puzzle or will this one get solved! If it turns out to be a registered trade mark great!