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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Pat on October 17, 2010, 01:13:25 PM
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I would appreciate any info ioncluding agethat anyone can give me for these plates please. Etched Webb Made In England on the back.
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hello Pat - regret that I know nothing about this particular design/pattern - but assuming the back stamp is the roundel showing the circular 'MADE IN ENGLAND' with the word 'Webb' in the centre - then the date range would appear to be circa 1935 - 39. There are, however, several variations of the Webb mark, and in order to be accurate, it is far better if you are able to show an actual picture of the back stamp, if possible.
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Hi Paul, That is indeed the mark but it is too faint to photograph. I have 5 of these, should have been 6 but as the lady at the hospital charit sale was unpacking them her small daughter dropped something heavy on one and smashed it. I believe it is cut not carved, but has this type got a name e.g cameo glass is called cameo glass. I want to sell them and describe them properly.
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from your picture it would appear that the cutting has been done thru the blue, thus creating the pattern. It may well be that the entire underside has been 'cased' in blue, and then the blue cut away to create the design. Without seeing the piece in the flesh it is difficult for me to be accurate with my comments. I like also the large stippled effect in the quadrants, and this may also mean that the entire underside was originally cased in blue, then cut away. This is possible a recognized pattern/design. You need an expert, and we need Nigel Benson, Christine, or Bernard to comment - but I suspect the method does in some way involve a casing of blue over the clear glass. :) Whichever, they desireable and attractive. People??
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You are correct. I have examines more closely and yes the whole of the underside was cased in blue and cut through.
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My apologies Pat - just realized I have mislead you regarding the date range for your particular back stamp - obviously my fingers are not working as they should. Correctly, the date should read.........'1935 - 49'. Again, my apologies. Paul S.
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Hello,
The way I read the photo of your bowl you have taken the photo from above where the surface is shiney, and all the 'work' is on the underside. There seems to be a mixture cutting through a bluecasing, or flashing, to achieve the required effect. It would certainly be more helpful to see a picture from the underside, which would allow us to analyse how the work was done.
I suspect that this would have a pattern name, which is difficult to arrive at without having copies of trade catalogues, since it has been so darn difficult to access the Thomas Webb archives.
Dating has already been discussed, so no need to comment on that ;) :)
Nigel
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... Correctly, the date should read.........'1935 - 49'. ...
Paul — I don't know whether you picked this up from BGbtW or elsewhere, but as BGbtW is the earliest I can find, I will assume that this date range originates from BGbtW.
Roger Dodsworth wrote Appendix III, Marks, and made a pretty good job of it, considering that a museum collection has little in common with general production, concentrating, as you would expect, on special and exceptional pieces. He recognised that and liberally sprinkled his dates with "c."s for circa to show that his dates were only approximations. Somewhere along the line your date range, Paul, has lost its "c.". So, unless there has been a fresh appraisal of Webb's marks, your date range should read:
c. 1935–49
It is worth noting that Roger missed a few contemporary marks like the Richardson mark with a central Union Jack, and the Stuart/Stonier mark of an "S" over a Plimsoll Line. Also the section on Webb Corbett marks needs substantial revision.
... You need an expert, and we need Nigel Benson, Christine, or Bernard to comment ...
Please don't include me into any list of experts or authorities — it's unwarranted and could be misleading to new members. I know my way around most of the books on British glass, and I've handled a fair amount of low- to medium-priced stock, the same as many other members, but that's all.
Bernard C. 8)
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Bernard, your assumption is correct re my reference for the mark - BGbtW, and if I have erred and omitted the 'c' then my apologies to Pat et al.
Coincidentally, I found a cut vase last Sunday morning with the Richardson mark (enclosing, as you say, the Union Jack) - and in due course it would have been my intention to show this on the GMB, since I was unable to find reference to this mark. When you say 'contemporary' - I assume you mean related to the period covered by the book in question. Do you know if this mark has a more specific date range, and if so I would be grateful to have details please, as this is the first occasion that I have seen it, and so am thinking it is far less common than most of the other back stamps.
The "S" over a Plimsoll line I believe we have discussed here within the last twelve months or so.
I think my reference to you as an expert was in comparison to myself, and I don't think either of us would argue with that - however, in future I shall confine my comments to people other than yourself - and sincere thanks for correcting my original post. :)
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I have just noticed that my intentions were honourable, even if the facts were wrong......."then the date range would appear to be circa 1935 - 39" ;)
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Hello,
Maybe I'm reading this wrongly, but doesn't Paul say quite clearly in:
"Re: Webb carved blue and clear plates
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2010, 02:55:23 PM »"
then the date range would appear to be circa 1935 - 39.
Then it's corrected to:'1935 - 49'.
So why all the fuss and the circa? Surely, its reasonable for us to understand what Paul was saying?
As for your comment about being an expert Bernard, I have to agree with you .....that we probably regard ourselves as 'specialists'. However, maybe it's for others to regard you as an expert, whatever you may feel about it? After all it's quite a compliment ;) :)
Interestingly we are all tending to refer to a book that is 23 years old for marks - BGbtW. It's appendix was not regarded as comprehensive when published. An observation that propelled me to Charles Hajdamach's 20th Century British Glass to see if he had done something more comprehensive. Answer - nothing at all :o Bit of a missed opportunity, that I hadn't noticed 'til now.
Nigel
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Nigel, I will photograph from the back tomorrow for you but to me it appears to have been cut through a blue overlay BUT I am not that knowledgable to actually state that.
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Okay guys here are more photo's, this time off the back of the shallow dish/plate.
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Hi,
The unpolished irratically honeycombed areas are the same as some Cameo Fleur by Webbs. I believe, from memory, that it was used as the background on a series of abstract patterned vases, also by Webb, that are the same period as the Cameo Fleur - sometimes refered top as pseudo-cameo.
This would suggest your bowls are pre-war, and frankly, despite the date stamp saying up to 1949, it is likely that most things bearing this mark are pre-war designs, because of the post-war restrictions on the production of luxury glass and often a reliance on pre-war work/designs. NOTE:This is NOT a given.
Nigel
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Thank you everyone for your input :)
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hello Pat :) - and glad the experts were able to assist. You may of course be selling your five plates as a single lot - if not however, and you care to name a price for one only, I would be happy to make a purchase. You may email me 'off board' if you wish. Paul S.