Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: deco.queen on November 15, 2010, 06:00:18 PM
-
It was suggested on our board that this bowl might be Murano. I've looked up alabastro, opalino and rose and haven't seen one like it. It's 3" tall and 6 1/4" across. Thank you in advance!!
Janice
-
The picture made in sunlight does make the bowl look like alabaster glass. Alabaster glass was often made either in Italy and Germany. Many people think immediately of Archimede Seguso when they see alabastro. Often bowls that are actually made in Germany are attributed to A. Seguso. I am leaning toward Germany as the origin of your bowl, but I am far from certain. The rim and thin-ness of the glass reminds me more of the pieces that I know are German.
-
Thank you for your comments, I didn't realize Germany made this type glass! Whatever it is, it's lovely and my favorite color! Thanks!!
-
Hello,
I downloaded your underside image and played with it. I see a pontil on the bottom of the piece. What you actually have is a piece of Steuben Rosaline. My Steuben book is upstairs or I could also give you the shape number... and I still can't go up any stairs yet.... :cry:
Very nice color in the piece... a nice example of Rosaline. It is personally one of my favorite Steuben colors.
Craig
Edited in: OK, I could not stand it so I asked Peggy to go get me my book. Your bowl is Steuben shape number 1402.
-
OMG! Steuben? Really!! I did look in one book I have for the shape in Steuben but didn't see it. If it really is I got a real bargain!!
-
Might as well throw my hat in the ring, bow respectfully to Craig & side with Anita on her original Seguso comment (rather that Germany) for two reasons, #1 pontil or not the bottom of the bowl is ground perfectly flat & #2 15-20 years ago AA imports of St. Louis had hundreds of pieces made in this color by Seguso. Bowls, vases, perfumes were the majority & these were hot sellers because of the color & quality plus they mimicked Steuben's Rosaline perfectly & were marketed as either Steuben Roseline or a Frederick Carder developed color when he was with Stevens & Williams. I have examined more than a few of these pieces over the years including bowls, vases & perfumes & all of them have polished pontils with perfectly ground flat bottoms. When you examine Steuben colored bowls of this period the bottom is ground, however it is slightly raised to the ground pontil not perfectly flat, therefore I believe this is Seguso made for AA. I remember with a great deal of clarity the confusion they made in the market when imported because the color plus the shapes so strongly resembled Steuben. Now the good news is that these Seguso pieces are highly sought after here in the U.S. & quite frankly are either bought by people thinking they are Steuben/Stevens & Williams or by individuals who know the difference & market them as Steuben/Stevens & Williams. Either way these pieces in this color are not cheap & are of the highest quality & are very collectible. Of course this is my opinion only. Ken
-
Here is a better picture of the bottom of this bowl.
Janice
-
;) Craig- what is the title of your Steuben book please, as I am still looking for an all encompassing one. Sorry to slightly hijack :pb: regards Carol
-
This is a difficult bowl, isn't it? But pretty. I'm not sure that this is Carder Steuben's 1402. The mouth seems to smaller relative to the bowl when I compare it to the picture. It is difficult to tell with a general shape and a line drawn photograph, however. And from the line drawing, I can't tell if it was done in rosaline or what the dimensions are. I'll have to trust Craig on that one.
I have a few pieces of Seguso alabastro. They have ground, polished bases with no pontil scar. I don't know what pieces they produced for AA might have looked like. I do know that it is often hard to diagnose a piece of glass strictly on the form of the pontil scar. It is just one of the many things to consider, because various companies have vessels with the same types of scar finish.
I guess our job is to try to find the exact bowl if we can.
-
Carol, My primary Steuben book is "The Glass of Frederick Carder" by Paul V Gardner. ISBN 0764313185
My 2nd book is "Frederick Carder and Steuben Glass" by Thomas P. Dimitroff. ISBN 0764304860
They are both great books, I use the Gardner book more....
Anita, as far as shape goes, I have had and sold two pieces of this shape in 2 different colors, one being Rosaline. Both were marked properly, which is important as there are many spurious Steuben marks out there.
Even though both of the pieces were this shape there were small variations in mouth dimension and general form, and I think we always need to remember that although general shape is determined by a line drawing, some small aspects of producing some pieces are always left to artistic interpretations by the artist producing the piece. With Steuben, as with many companies, the line drawings are just that, a guide to general shape likely with some size guidelines.....
On many shape drawings in Gardner there are no precise dimensions. I have seen shape 1402 in a couple of sizes, and with slight variations in mouth dimensions relative to diameter of the piece, just as the popular shape 2683 comes in 4 or 5 heights with some pretty distinct variations in neck and mouth.... I will attach an example of 2683 I currently own just so you know what shape I am referring to. This example is a 10.5" tall white Cluthra. The second image is a Pink Cluthra version in the same height and shape number with what I would call a decidedly different shape. For what it is worth, my white piece has a perfectly flat bottom with a highly polished pontil. I can not currently get to it due to my injury, or I would also post an image of that...
I also own a Rosaline bowl, shape 2851 which has a perfectly flat bottom with a pontil also. On an additional note regarding shape, this particular shape (2851) is identified in a 1932 catalog with a similar, yet decisively different variation that is much deeper than this earlier version. I have also seen distinct variations in the appearance of the Rosaline color based on thickness of the piece in question.....
I also would add, that this could potentially be the color "Rose" and it may be difficult to tell without handling the item. Digital pics and monitor setting skew colors we see in images.....
I also completely agree that pontil and shape are not deciding factors, and sometimes it will be necessary to handle a piece to really know either way.
My gut still goes with Steuben on this one....
Craig
-
Craig I looked through Frederick Carders Steuben Glass, Ketchum #1 which has the line drawings for 1402, no dimensions given & while I agree there one can expect variations in hand blown glass I would say that in this case you are correct in saying this piece should be examined in hand for a positive attribution. I know your gut says Steuben, mine says maybe, but AA Seguso is a prime candidate because I am aware of the situation that existed years ago when these appeared & were snapped up for the dremel trade. They (bowls, vases,colognes) were found in both Jade & Roseline & the shapes (with exception of the larger atomizers) were obviously carefully created to mimic the originals & that’s why I hesitate. Also with a piece in a color this highly prized I would be more inclined to find a signature rather than not that I could compare to an original. Maybe I’m being too skeptical, but a great many people were taken in by these pieces over a two year span. There was also a problem with Calcite during this period produced by Poschinger, however the shapes were usually a bit far off. If you like Steuben there is a Diving Lady frog I IDed Monday evening for an individual that is currently on the bay (he had it originally listed a a hood ornament & promptly changed the listing) My good deed for the month. Ken
-
Ken,
Hands on is the only real resolution to solving a piece like this.... I would though, recommend to Janice that she take a loop and look very carefully at the entire base for a mark or remnants..... They can be extremely difficult to see. Not a guarantee as the marks have been forged.... but she could get lucky and find a genuine acid stamp or remnants of...... The forged marks are pretty easily discernible if a mark is there.....
Craig
-
I did take a loupe and look at the bottom in good light and there is no sign of a mark. It may not be Steuben and that doesn't bother me because I bought it because I love the color. Thank you for all of your thoughts on my pretty pink bowl!
Janice
-
Don't be discouraged or make a decision on it. Not all Steuben is marked, and not all marks survive use. Most acid stamps were on the underside of the glass.... only a small % are in the pontil. Although there are differing opinions here from well educated glassies, I am still of the belief it is a piece of Steuben.... That is half the fun of all this.....
Craig
-
It would be fantastic if we could find images of known AA pieces and known Steuben for comparison... Sigh - it's horrible when very nice copies are made and end up on the secondary market.
-
To complicate things, I ran into some pictures of Archimede Seguso alabastro bottles in the same color with the circular polished pontil. So I think we can put what Ohio wrote a rung higher in considerations.
-
I have no idea :spls:-- but it does look kinda like this color Here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110562003182)
...and I have never seen/or handled a piece of Steuban either so ???? So I am clueless..... :pb: