Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: msiscoe on November 16, 2010, 06:34:59 PM
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Hello, I see my pictures from yesterday's post shrank to microscopic proportions. I bought this bowl, etched 736 to the base. Can anyone ID the maker? Many thanks.
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What size is it and how many ribs did the mould have? It looks like a piece of English Victorian glass possibly made by Thomas Webb. A blue one is shown in Victorian Decorative Glass by Mervyn Gulliver, p170. He doesn't give it a positive ID but it has remarkable similarities to something very similar that is definitely attributed.
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Hello, it is mouth blown, with a smooth pontil. It measures 3.5 inches tall, by 6 inches wide and 4 inches deep.
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The dimensions are right. It's not free blown though; it's blown into a mould before final shaping. How many ribs does it have for final confirmation?
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Hello, I count ten raised areas around the bowl, but the dolphins or serpents are attached. Does that help?
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Assuming the "animals" (Gulliver calls them lizards) are attached to ribs, yes because that makes 12, which is what Gulliver's bowl has.
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See this link to my vase in the 2008 GMB Calendar (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-8524). (Click the Glass Gallery image for a slightly larger version.)
I think the main colouring is the same as in the queried bowl. Cyril Manley said this was Stevens & Williams "Alexandrite ribbed Rockingham" and an example (pretty much the same as my vase) was illustrated in his Decorative Victorian Glass book. I bought my vase many years ago at an auction in Stourbridge, where it was listed as Stevens & Williams.
The blue bowl in Gulliver's book is formed in a similar way, although the ribbing is much flatter than in my vase. It is interesting that on page 169 of his book, Gulliver shows another bowl with a similar style of decoration using "multi-colouredf splashes over fragments of silver foil". And that one, also with "lizard-type" creatures, is stated to be Thomas Webb, by virtue of the style of the crimped edge matching a known design registration. (Edited to add - Ah! I now see the Christine had alluded to that one, but without the page number!)
It seems to me that the queried bowl has elements of the Thomas Webb lizard-type creatures and the Stevens & Williams "Alexandrite ribbed Rockingham" glass. Of course, "lizard-type" creatures were very popular in the late 19th century and perhaps several companies used them.
Whatever the truth is, I think this is not a Murano piece so I will change the title and move the thread into the general "Glass" forum for now - even though it could well be English.
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For those who like to counts ribs - my vase has sixteen.
I am not convinced that the number of ribs is very meaningful unless it is known that only certain companies used certain numbers. 12 and 16-rib moulds were common.
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John Walsh Walsh certainly made pieces with similar applied 'lizard-type creatures' as shown by the 1883 ad. reproduced in plate 157, p.228 of Barbara Morris's Victorian Table Glass & Ornaments (Morris calls them fish). There's not an exact match to the piece shown but it does show that Webb was not the only maker to use this style.
For comparison I've attached a couple of pics of what I believe to be a Walsh Walsh piece (note the tails have been reduced on my example, they would have originally extended below to form feet, see no. 160 in the ad mentioned above):
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Ooops! I realised that my reference to "Alexandrite" earlier was nonsense. Manley actually described it as "ribbed Rockingham" (Rockingham being the deep amber colour).
I have used my moderator status to edit myself above.
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Hello, Thank you everyone for the information. It is a beautiful bowl/vase no matter who made it.
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Looking again at these because of another thread, I noticed something curious.
In Gulliver's page 169 he described the applied animals on the bowl id'd as Webb, top of the page, as 'lizards' and indeed they have long tails, the fishy open mouth face and it seems three curvy spiny rigaree applications on their back, but they also have 'arms' on their front feet extending to their 'hands'. On the one overleaf in the book page 170 that has a straight rim with the body looking like it has 'stripes' of blue and silver foil and a ruby interior to the bowl, he also described them as 'lizards' however whilst they have tails and a spiny back (it looks different to the Webb id'd one), they don't seem to have 'arms' before the 'hands', it looks like they just have the 'hands' although it is difficult to see exactly.
Neither seem to have applied red eyes or enamelled mouths (just adding this for future reference as it seems some of these fishy bowls have red eyes and enamelled mouths)
Sorry,it's not adding anything but just an observation.
Edited to add
oh, I didn't realise but this bowl seems to have been formally identified as Stevens and Williams in Manley's book of Decorative Victorian Glass page 61
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Stevens-and-Williams-Silveria-Art-Glass-Rose-Bowl-Applied-Serpent-Snake-/130787844820?pt=Antiques_Decorative_Arts&hash=item1e739022d4&nma=true&si=MrJ2S0h3%2BZpiywkWXdFrMF4ZfOU%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
m
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Manley is known to be inaccurate in some cases in light of current information