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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Bernard C on December 02, 2010, 06:59:48 AM

Title: Three wide-based water/lemonade/juice jugs for attribution, please
Post by: Bernard C on December 02, 2010, 06:59:48 AM

(http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10318/DSCF1060.jpg)

(http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10318/normal_DSCF1059.jpg) (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-13950)    (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10318/normal_DSCF1063.jpg) (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-13951)

Click either image for GlassGallery file / enlargement.

Average dimensions — h. 6" 15cm, base d. 5½" 14cm, rim d. 4½" 11.5cm, weight 2lb 2½oz 982g.   Definitely made to imperial measurements.

Dip-moulded with 6 pattern repeat zigzag optic pattern.   Handles randomly positioned — not lined up with the pattern.   One is symmetrical, one slightly right-handed, one very right-handed with the spout positioned ½" 13mm to the left of a centre line through the handle.

Colours — Clear uncoloured crystal, amethyst (not very intense), and an unusual interesting amber with a dash of amethyst.

The uncoloured example is from our kitchen cupboard and is used as a water jug at dinner perhaps three or four times times a week.  It is beautifully designed — looks good, pours well, and is impossible to knock over.

I did wonder whether this jug was originally designed for shipping or railway use.

Any ideas on attribution or date?   Have you seen this jug in other colours?   Have you seen that unusual amethyst amber elsewhere?   Note that my photographs were taken in cloudy daylight with no artificial lighting or flash, and that, as usual, I haven't colour corrected them in any way.

Thanks for your interest,

Bernard C.  8)

Title: Re: Three wide-based water/lemonade/juice jugs for attribution, please
Post by: johnphilip on December 02, 2010, 08:58:15 AM

At a guess Webb or Stuart ..!

Title: Re: Three wide-based water/lemonade/juice jugs for attribution, please
Post by: keith on December 02, 2010, 04:34:17 PM

First glance I would have said Webbs but the 'waves' are more rounded on Webbs, WF's maybe?

Title: Re: Three wide-based water/lemonade/juice jugs for attribution, please
Post by: johnphilip on December 02, 2010, 05:34:30 PM

Not W/Fs  will give odds 50/1 if ur a betting man .

Title: Re: Three wide-based water/lemonade/juice jugs for attribution, please
Post by: jomo99 on December 02, 2010, 07:05:33 PM

  Hi Bernard,

                  I had one of these Jugs in a very stunning Emerald Green Colour, I sold it earlier this year. Like JP I thought Webb or Stuart.

                          Warmest Wishes,

                            John

Title: Re: Three wide-based water/lemonade/juice jugs for attribution, please
Post by: nigel benson on December 02, 2010, 07:12:29 PM

Hi,

These have been on the board before. I have always put them down as Thomas Webb, 1930's and 50's. Not sure that I've ever seen one marked though - which would probably negate Stuart since their byline was something about always being marked. Not strictly true, but by now, if Stuart, I would have expected to have seen a marked piece.

Nigel

Title: Re: Three wide-based water/lemonade/juice jugs for attribution, please
Post by: keith on December 02, 2010, 07:25:57 PM

To compare...Webb vase.

Title: Re: Three wide-based water/lemonade/juice jugs for attribution, please
Post by: nigel benson on December 02, 2010, 07:33:38 PM

?????????????????

The photo of softer wave ribbing does not alter my opinion I'm afraid, nor has it when I've handled them over the years. Of course, I could always be wrong  ::)

Nigel

Title: Re: Three wide-based water/lemonade/juice jugs for attribution, please
Post by: Anne on December 02, 2010, 11:51:13 PM

Earlier discussions here:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,5922.0.html
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,24718.0.html

Title: Re: Three wide-based water/lemonade/juice jugs for attribution, please
Post by: Bernard C on December 03, 2010, 10:32:36 AM

Keith — Your vase only has four pattern repeats, not six.

Anne — Thanks for the extra links.   Useful.   I thought I'd commented on them before!

Nigel — I've proved that these jugs (and tankards and tumblers) don't exist!  :spls:

Quote from: Bernard C on December 02, 2010, 06:59:48 AM

...   Handles randomly positioned — not lined up with the pattern   ...

I couldn't match this with the products of either Webb or Stuart, as I couldn't envisage any of their glassmakers capable of producing such irregular work.   They would have had to position the handle exactly on either the "A" or the "V" of the zigzag pattern.

It then occurred to me that if the glassmaker lined up his handle with a "V" in the pattern, there would be a corresponding "V" on the opposite side showing him exactly where to put the spout and neatly framing it.

I then imagined myself to be this glassmaker.   It wouldn't have taken me more than two or three jugs to figure out this aid to producing a perfect jug, without in any way increasing the time needed to make one, and possibly significantly reducing the time needed to make the spout as its location was already marked out.   I can't see how any glassmaker could have missed this simple and obvious fact.   Therefore this range could not have been made by a glassmaker.   But it was.   So they can't exist.   Q.E.D.  ;D

---

The brilliant design combined with the manufacturing peculiarities and the numbers that have emerged on the GMB suggests to me the possibility of the range being designed by an experienced factor like Lang for a big client like Woolworth's, and being made as cheaply as possible.

What do you think?

Bernard C.  8)

Title: Re: Three wide-based water/lemonade/juice jugs for attribution, please
Post by: chopin-liszt on December 03, 2010, 12:17:15 PM

I have a jug with matching set of glasses, in a rather dirty sort of smoky amber colour. The jug has a very big round polished pontil mark.

Title: Re: Three wide-based water/lemonade/juice jugs for attribution, please
Post by: Frank on December 03, 2010, 12:52:49 PM

Hillston perhaps, can't get to catalogues right now.

Title: Re: Three wide-based water/lemonade/juice jugs for attribution, please
Post by: Chris Harrison on December 27, 2010, 06:33:42 PM

In this pattern I have

- this same jug (flint) - 35 fl oz/1 litre to brim
- 1 large, inward-tapering jug (flint) - 35 fl oz/1 litre to brim
- 1 small, inward-tapering jug (flint) - 12 fl oz to brim
- 4 small tankards (blue, green, brown, amber) - 12 fl ozs to brim
- 4 large tankards (flint, green, brown, amber) - 20 fl ozs to brim
- 1 small inward-tapering posy vase with a 6-pointed crimped rim (flint)

None of them is marked.

I'm fairly sure that one of these large jugs was on display in the Red House Glass Cone (the old Stuart works).  Doesn't mean it's by Stuart, of course.   ;D  Like Nigel, I would have expected at least one marked item somewhere down the line.

See my comment on
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,24718.0.html
if you haven't already...

Title: Re: Three wide-based water/lemonade/juice jugs for attribution, please
Post by: nigel benson on December 28, 2010, 02:33:18 PM

Frank - Surely Hill Oustan were simply retailers of other makers glass and not manufacturers in their own right? Certainly a large number of their illustrations within the glass sections can be attributed to various well known makers.

Bernard - You also seem to be assuming that, either, only one chair made these pieces, or, that all information was passed from one chair to another in order to ensure consistancy. Otherwise, how would the consistancy of the use of 'V' or 'A' examples that you refer to be achieved? Whilst this might not have been the case, amongst other things, it takes no account of the famed competition between chairs which would suggest information was unlikely be shared. Superficially, it is therefore quite possible that inconsistancy can occur within one factory.

Comment from anyone who has worked in this situation would be valuable here :)

Since I think you've lost me :huh:  ;)

Quote

I've proved that these jugs (and tankards and tumblers) don't exist!

Title: Re: Three wide-based water/lemonade/juice jugs for attribution, please
Post by: ju1i3 on January 26, 2011, 05:13:09 PM

I saw one of these in aqua today at the Islington antiques market in Camden Passage. It was priced £14. 

Title: Re: Three wide-based water/lemonade/juice jugs for attribution, please
Post by: keith on January 26, 2011, 05:19:30 PM

...and here' another...

Title: Re: Three wide-based water/lemonade/juice jugs for attribution, please
Post by: Frank on October 21, 2011, 11:13:19 AM

After a quick leaf through the shape appears mostly post WW2 in Hill Ouston catalogues, mostly under English Crystal. Both cut, plain and transfer decorated and in a variety of sizes.

Nigel - somewhere I recall reading that Hill Ouston did buy a glassworks at some point. Probably in a Gazette so this will surface again in time.