Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: rwinegar on December 29, 2010, 04:58:48 PM
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I recently bought a pair of these blue opalescent swans. My aim is to resell them. But I first need to be sure of identification. I think they are Burtles Tate. But they do not contain any registry marks. In my research all the Burtles Tate swans I found do have registry marks. I thought I would turn to the experts here. The bottoms on both pieces have been slightly ground - I assume from the factory to sit level.
Measures 3.5 inches high X 4.25 inches long X 3 inches wide.
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/rwinegar/BurtlesTateBlueOpalSwan2.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/rwinegar/BurtlesTateBlueOpalSwan1.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/rwinegar/BurtlesTateBlueOpalSwan9.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/rwinegar/BurtlesTateBlueOpalSwan3.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/rwinegar/BurtlesTateBlueOpalSwan7.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/rwinegar/BurtlesTateBlueOpalSwan10.jpg
Thanks for any help you are able to provide.
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Hi and welcome. :hi:
It looks right to me, but this is not my area - there will be somebody along soon who will confirm it, or put me right if I'm wrong.
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If there is no registration mark I suspect it's not Burtles & Tate
A while ago, Roy, who posts here under mhgcgolfclub sent me this note:
"I was just looking through the Burtles and Tate section of your web site and you have 2 pictures of Swans, the 2nd picture of the single swan looks very very similar to me of a later swan made by the Cambridge glass company of the USA, I once bought a pair of swans which looked very much like Burtles although they were a slightly strange colour of blue very much like the one in your picture,they were not signed, just something you may like to check out"
That sounds like a pretty good description of your swan!
Incidentally the swan which Roy was referring to on my website did in fact turn out to be Burtles & Tate as the owner was able to find a reg number on it.
Some swan pictures on this page:
http://sites.google.com/site/molwebbhistory/Home/registered-designs/burtles-tate-designs-by-date/burtles-tate-1885
I'll have to add a note about these off-blue swans... they do look very similar. From your photos compared to the real B&T I would say that the angle on the neck of the swan is not as acute as the real thing.
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Hi and welcome to GMB! Very good photos BTW :hiclp:
Very tricky and difficult to judge - here's another - slightly different, I'd say:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370273112817&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
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Thanks for that information.
I have looked at many Cambridge swans. They no more resemble Burtles Tate swans than they do a streetcar. The link you provided shows a Burtles Tate swan of Jan 1885, design 20972. The feather detail is exactly the same as the blue swan I am questioning.
I guess the real question is whether Burtles Tate ever manufactured it's swans without the registry marks.
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Hi and welcome to GMB! Very good photos BTW :hiclp:
Very tricky and difficult to judge - here's another - slightly different, I'd say:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370273112817&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Thanks Pamela.
Actually I saw that same pic before posting here. Other than the registry mark, it appears to be identical to my blue ones.
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Hmm, having just googled to look at some Cambridge glass swans, I see what you mean!
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As I don't know what they look like either, I searched as well - the Cambridge ones have back feet sticking out, and the neck seems to curve so that the beak is on the beast's neck. Quite different to the B&T ones.
Now I need to do a search to find out what a "streetcar" looks like.........
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Hello
Given your location (USA), it is far more likely that you have an example from Dugan/Diamond glass, Imperial, Fenton or some other US company that have made versions of these swans since the early 1900s to date.
Here is a search on ebay that pulls up several examples similar to yours:
http://pottery-glass.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=swan+%28fenton%2Cdugan%2Cnorthwood%2Cimperial%2Cdiamond%29&_sacat=50693&_odkw=swan&_osacat=50693&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313 (http://pottery-glass.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=swan+%28fenton%2Cdugan%2Cnorthwood%2Cimperial%2Cdiamond%29&_sacat=50693&_odkw=swan&_osacat=50693&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313)
Some are signed by Fenton or labeled by Imperial.
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Hello
Given your location (USA), it is far more likely that you have an example from Dugan/Diamond glass, Imperial, Fenton or some other US company that have made versions of these swans since the early 1900s to date.
Here is a search on ebay that pulls up several examples similar to yours:
http://pottery-glass.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=swan+%28fenton%2Cdugan%2Cnorthwood%2Cimperial%2Cdiamond%29&_sacat=50693&_odkw=swan&_osacat=50693&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313 (http://pottery-glass.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=swan+%28fenton%2Cdugan%2Cnorthwood%2Cimperial%2Cdiamond%29&_sacat=50693&_odkw=swan&_osacat=50693&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313)
Some are signed by Fenton or labeled by Imperial.
You're joking right? lI have been collecting Fenton, Dugan, & Imperial swans for more than 25 years. I have more than 250 in my collection. This swan is none of those. Hard to believe that anyone can suggest that it might be.
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Hello
Actually I am not joking. People here are trying to be helpful but are getting nothing but vinegar back from you.
Perhaps your discussion should have started with the fact that you were an expert on swans, having several hundred in your collection, that these two examples were clearly not something that you had previously encountered and therefore you were wondering if they were Burtles, Tates examples without the registry mark. It would have saved the time that I and other folks here have put into searching for an answer to your question.
Sid
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http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,6521.0.html
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I'm out of here. I thought I would be engaging in an intelligent discussion with intelligent people in an English glass site about a piece of possibly English glass. Instead I just get stupid answers. Like maybe it is Fenton. Not even close to resembling Fenton. HMMM! Maybe it might be a can of soup or a horseshoe.
Ban me if you wish. I won't be back.
Goodbye.
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All we ask is for members to be polite to and tolerant of each other. Members have tried to help and been rewarded with rudeness. If you are so expert I'm sure you can manage quite well without our experts. Thank you for dropping by, HAND.
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I don not know who made them, but I find the quality of the base grinding rather worrying. I would expect something smoother looking; the photo shows something rather like a sandpaper job.