Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: albglass on January 09, 2011, 02:08:14 AM
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This is such an unusual vase, with such beautiful cutting and engraving that I am thinking it may be British. There are bullseyes around the top half of the vase spaced regularly like the bullseye glass made by Webb, but there are no bullseyes on the lower half, and all the bullseyes have engraving on or around them. Two of the bullseyes have become the center of engraved flowers. The rest of the bullseyes either have cuts on them to make buds, or have multiple slices on them to make them leaves or part of the flower petals, which were then either frosted or the slicing gave them a frosted look. The bottom of the piece is also cut. There is a large polished pontil under the cutting on the base, but I can't find any mark. There is a lot of wear on the base, but still, I think I would have detected a mark underneath had there been one. I don't have access to books on British engraving. This is so distinctive--does anyone recognize the maker?
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Moved to 'Glass' forum for you, you'll get more people looking at it, then we can move to British Glass if needed. :thup:
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It's quite beautiful, but I've never seen the like before. Hopefully someone will be able to help - this will fetch it back up the forum meanwhile. ;)
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Have looked through my modest book collection,no joy,some pieces are marked on the body,it might be worth another look ;D
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Thanks so much for commenting on this vase! I took it out again and went over all of it with a magnifying glass, but I can find no mark on it. Perhaps the bullseyes will be the key to identifying this piece, since there can't be too many glassmakers that made glass with nice round lumps evenly spaced around their glass, and used the bumps to form a pattern for the cutting and engraving. In case this is another clue, it does have a wonderful bell like ring when I tap it that rings for a good 8 seconds.
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I love this vase! Such a beauty! Congratulations on finding it :D
I'm wondering if you could be right about it being Webb. It reminds me of the bowl I found recently from the 'Gayglass' range, which apparently came in Plain, Bullseye, Ripple and Waterlily engraved. The thread I posted is here: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,37484.0.html
My bowl appears to be Ripple, but has been engraved. Yours, although not one of the 'Gayglass' uranium colours, looks as if it might be one of the 'Bullseye' shapes, which has had added engraving. The fact that my bowl had an apparently unlisted engraving on it would seem to indicate that these variants were indeed possible.
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Leni, it was very exciting to read about your Gayglass example that was apparently engraved in a previously unknown pattern. It opens up the possibility that other Webb lines could have occasionally been engraved without becoming production pieces. I have read that Webb bullseye glass did come in clear (and amber) and had a polished pontil, sometimes had a foot, and had a lovely bell tone when struck (as this does) but I don't know enough about the Webb shapes to know if the shape of this vase could be Webb. The only bullseye vase on the Internet that I could find curved inward near the top, and this vase curves out and then goes straight up to the rim. It is 8.25 inches tall, the foot is 4.25 inches in diameter, and the rim is 4 3/8 inches wide. Apparently there were lots and lots of shapes used, but I don't know if they are all documented somewhere. I really thought this would be easy to identify, ha, ha! :)
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In 20th Century Glass,C.Hajdamach,there is a picture of the 'Gay Glass' range,can't see any the same shape as yours,Stuart glass may be a possibility ;D
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I trawled through (seemingly! ;D) endless images of Webb bullseye and bumpy glass last night but, like Keith, can't match this shape at all. Webb Corbett, John Walsh Walsh, or Richardsons might be other avenues to explore along with Stuart.
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Bless your heart for checking all those Webb shapes--I am SO impressed! And it was brilliant, Keith and Anne, to suggest casting about for another attribution. Unfortunately, I don't have much information on Stuart and Richardson glass (if anyone has a recommendation for a good book that covers their glass, I would be eternally grateful), but I do have the Glass of John Walsh Walsh book by Eric Reynolds. This shape vase is shown in fig. 139, 145, and possibly fig. 104 (the rim on 104 looks like it curves in a tad). This shape is also shown in over a dozen figures in the back of the book from the two factory pattern books that have been recovered. It would have made my day if my pattern had been shown, but alas, in all the cuttings shown on this shape, none matched my piece. There is an example of a flower cutting out of a central clear circle (fig. 92), but it is not even remotely as complex as my vase. But most of the records of the company were destroyed when the factory closed, so all of their patterns are not known. Also, the book talks about all the innovation and creativity that was going on in the cutting shop, so if this is even John Walsh Walsh, it may not be a production piece. The book also says that their mark "can also be seen on the edge of the base or foot, but this is frequently obscured or totally obliterated by wear--a particular problem on heavy vases, ..." and "this mark was applied by acid etching and this process only produces a faint impression." Of course, my luck that this vase is heavy and is quite worn on the bottom. So maybe John Walsh Walsh...
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My heart was beating out John Walsh Walsh when I saw this... no idea why! I think I'm in love! :love:
I'll change the topic title a bit to see if we can catch the eye of a Walsh person or two. ;)
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Hello,
This is indeed a quality vase with wonderful cutting and engraving, underlined by the way the pattern has been extended to the base.
I am tending toward Walsh at this point, purely because you have drawn our attention to the shape and I have checked the references that you have given, however it is possible that it could well be from another Stourbridge factory, assuming it to be British. For instance, the quality of the work could also be Webb, or Stevens & Williams.
The main reason for posting is that the term 'bullseye' seems to be being used for two different types of decoration. The vase on this thread appears to have a polished concave roundal (similar to a polished pontil mark), which is often referred to as a pruntie.
However, the Webb 'Bullseye' pattern is actually a bulge on the surface of the vase and is not polished, but a continuing part of the total surface of the vase. The bulges are positioned in a series of alternated rows, or bands, over the surface of the vessel.
Nigel
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Yes, the bullseyes are a complicating factor in identifying this vase. There really are alternating rows of bulges across the top half of this vase. They have not been polished in two of the bulges that form the center of the two flowers, but the others have been cut or sliced over to form buds or part of the petals. It was the two rows of bulges that made me think it was a Webb piece, but no one so far has come across this shape vase in their Bullseye line. And while the shape of the vase does match John Walsh Walsh known pieces, I did not see any examples of the use of bullseyes in their cutting and engraving work.
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Whilst <whispers>dusting</whispers> the crystal shelf today I realised I have a small vase in this shape without bullseyes which is acid stamped Webb Corbett. May or may not be helpful, but adding for reference. :)
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What was it Anne? A sudden rush of blood to the head..............Are you feeling better now??? Dusting indeed ::) ;)
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I'm fully recovered now thanks Nigel, after a nice mug of coffee and a couple of jammie dodgers! ;D
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On page 50 of Charles Hajdamach's 20th Century British Glass plate number94 there are a number of pieces that appear to have applied pads or pads and trails and that have also been engraved.
One, third from left, is a sort of big tumbler that has a 'look' in shape of your vase, and has applied pads (without trails) around the tumbler and is engraved.
These are by Thomas Webb & Sons.
I wonder if this angle might be worth looking into more? Just wondering.
Also on page 124 plate 244 there is a Walsh Walsh vase which appears to be quite similar in shape to your vase. It is heavily cut in a geometric pattern and it's quite difficult to tell if it is exactly the same shape as yours - to my eye perhaps not at the top, as it doesn't appear to curve in as much as yours does which gives it that lovely shape. The one in the book looks slightly more 'straight up' without the inward curve.
m
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Most agree that Stourbridge seems likely. The cut decor reminded me of the cut and painted vases attributed to Hugo Masey, the tree root ones. The Webb Corbett pattern books are stuck in the Wedgwood archive in Staffordshire and apparently do not contain much decor evidence, such as painting. Many good quality Webb Corbett pieces do not have acid marks. I thoguht Webb Corbett before Anne posted about having a small marked example in this shape, but Webb or Stevens and Williams would not surprise me. Though this is not his style, some of the best engravers and cutters in Stourbridge, such as a chap in the 1950's and 1960's called T. Wood, in Amblecote, worked outside of the factory premises, in units near their homes, decorating locally sourced blanks, for a contractor, which probably complicates things!
Robert (bOBA)
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Might be worth contacting the Webb Corbett visitors centre, anyone got their email address ?
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Yes all possible avenues.
I think the thing that struck me was that Thomas Webb produced items with these applied pads /bullseyes (but without trails from the pads) and which were engraved.
Therefore I was wondering if the glass at least might have been made by Thomas Webb after all I suppose.
aha edited - this is one such goblet in the museum collection - the one I was looking at specifically has spaced out pads on it though much like the op's vase but in the book is photographed with this one and some others.
http://blackcountryhistory.org/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_BH977/
'Artist: David Hammond (designer); J. Brooks, K. Sloper (cutters); Cyril Kimberley (engraver)
Maker: Thomas Webb and Sons (H. Pearson, C. Lamb, J. Blackham)
Production Place: Amblecote; Stourbridge; England
Production Date: 1976
Production Period: The 70s (1970-1979)
Object Name: Goblet
Object Name: 20th century Rock Crystal Goblet
ObjectNumber: BH977
Summary: Rock crystal style goblet commissioned by Dudley Art Gallery from Thomas Webb and Sons in 1976
Description: Goblet, carved and engraved rock style with eight rounded oval panels, one depicting glassblowers, the rest illustrating different aspects of nature including flowers, fish, butterfly, bird, bee, dragon and fruit; textured stem with cut step in the middle, scalloped foot, upper surface engraved with lillies and underside with lilly leaves
Dimensions: Height 22.0cm
Credit Line: Commissioned by Dudley Museum and Art Gallery for English Rock Crystal Glass Exhibition
Technique: Blown; cut; engraved rock crystal style'
Webb Corbett Visitor centre tel is 01384 399421
m
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There is a bowl in 'The Crystal Years' page 47 that bears some similarity.